www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Eating before Eucharist

Ah, Anhelyna...yes, all of Europe, from city to town, is wonderful this way...
and the aroma is so welcoming...

Alas, in the U.S., we are so deprived of this. Bakeries are usually 'areas' within large suburban supermarkets...neither bread nor the questionable quality pastries are ever fresh and still warm from the oven. The only place one can experience such delight is in *some* neighborhoods of New York city and other cities.

Regards,
Alice

OH MY GOODNESS ME !!

I thought the USA was civilised

Certainly here I could do that possibly not in a small town though - but in the big cities it's certainly possible

On Sunday I take a sandwich to eat after DL since we do not have a coffee hour

HEHEHE...In some ways very much, and in some ways not at all!!!

???

I can think of rree-standing bakeries everywhere I've ever lived except Ames, and even there it'sthat I don't remember--I think there was one in Campustown, if knowwhere else.

Now, except for NY and another couple of dense cities, most people don't *pass* a pakery on foot, but that's one of the tradeoffs of the greater space we have.

I head a paper at a conference that tried to explain suburubia as some kind of oppression, and I had to explain to her after the session that she could have my Weber when she pried it from my cold, dead, fingers.

Trading my house & land for an apartment with no yard is utterly beyond my comprehension, and no number of small businesses that I would walk by could possibly compensate for giving that up.

hawk

Dear Hawk,

Yes, I now live in the suburbs...but trust me, the free standing bakeries of the suburban strip mall are nothing in comparison to the European ones, where the aromas of fresh breads (something not easily found in the U.S.--even NYC) and warm pastries waft through the air. I promise you, there really is no comparison in the quality of pastries either (ingredients are much more pure in Europe-fresh butter vs. Crisco type fats most bakeries here use to cut corners).

That being said, I readily admit that American cakes, *especially* birthday cakes are in a wonderful class of their own and cannot be rivaled!

The country/suburban atmosphere of the U.S. is wonderful, but don't knock big cities--they also offer much..though their delights usually appeal more to younger adults.

Alice

It's often not earlier than that in Europe either. In Finland, where I live, the Orthodox liturgy tends to start at 10 a.m., and it won't be over until 11:30-12:00 (depending on the number of communicants, pace of singing/reading, amount of "silent prayers" read aloud). In my experience, the same applies also to Russia and Estonia, while in Greece the liturgy often starts very early in the morning (matins at 7 a.m., liturgy around 8 am.).

Being relatively young and healthy, the fast from midnight has never been a problem for me, I hardly even pay attention to it. Actually I kind of even like it because it saves time when you don't have worry about the breakfast, and you also don't have to feel any need to visit the bathroom during the service. But I can imagine the fast from midnight can be tough for older and less healthy individuals. As I understand, they often get concession from their priest to shorten their fast.

What's the standard fasting time before the Eucharist among the Byzantine Catholics? Is it the same as for the Latin Catholics, i.e. 1 hour, or more like what we have in the Orthodox Church?

As for our practice in the Orthodox Church of Finland (part of the Church of Constantinople), I guess I didn't mention it in my previous post, we fast from midnight (no food or drink), but if the liturgy is in the evening, we can eat until midday if we have to, but should preferably fast all day, i.e. from midnight, also then (THAT is tough). We are also supposed to read certain prayers the night before and the same morning, and should go regularly to confession (though not necessarily every time we receive the Eucharist as they do in the Orthodox church in some other places).

As much as I love pastries, I can't imagine giving up yards

My big complaint in life is that I have a huge front yard and medium back yard, rather than the other way around.

As for fasting. . . I've gone to not eating before liturgy, but I do drink caffeinated coffee. I can go through the day without knowing that I've eaten; that caffeine on the empty stomach is about the only thing that can bring the attention of my senses.

hawk, now craving a pastry

Alice, what you have said is right on the mark. As a former Roman Catholic and now a Byzantine Catholic and not at all opposed to one day being an Orthodox Christian I agree with you 100% that the rules after 1964 are so lax as to be ridiculous. I think the hypothetical interpretations being put out here 'make sense' - that this is the minimum and by no means is doing more not encouraged...BUT, in fact, since doing more than the minimum (or even just reminding people of the bare minimum rule) is never being mentioned /at all/ by anyone, priest or laity, in or out of church, and by no one around us or in our families or among our friends actually doing more than the minimum (at least no one I ever knew) the minimum quickly became the norm. In our BCC parish more and more people want to do more and this Lent there was a group trying to follow the Orthodox fasting practices. It wasn't a large group, and you never know who might have done it on his own, but it's a start and a step in the right direction. I consider the lax fasting 'requirement' to be scandalous to Orthodox who may see our laxness as a disregard for the Eucharist and one more stumbling block to future reunion that just doesn't need to be (along with the different methods for calculation of the date of Pascha - my wish is for the Holy Father unilaterally to change to the Orthodox method as a sign of his desire for reunion, and I would think a return to the previous fasting requirements which used to be similar to Orthodox practice would be a similar step).

When I was a little boy going to the RCC in the mid-60s our family /never/ had breakfast or anything at all before church and always went to fairly early services because we, children and adults, couldn't easily wait to eat until, say, 1pm. The donuts and coffee after Mass were very welcome and this was not just a social event - we were really hungry.

I would definitely agree with this in general but the Latin church where I often receive the sacrament /always/ has had a long line every time I've ever gone there. On average Saturday afternoons there are 20 or more people in front of me and the wait is about 30-45 minutes. I guess it depends on the parish. What's strange is that this parish is the reason I became an Eastern Catholic - it is so liberal in the way the Liturgy is performed, the music is in general something you'd hear in a Protestant service, etc. that it drove me to seek something more and I'm very thankful that this happened. However, the people do seem to understand their need for sacramental confession. Regularly hearing boisterous renditions of 'Amazing Grace' and similar awfully inappropriate stuff at Liturgy and a priest who plays a harmonica at Mass would not usually be things you'd associate with a parish that values Confession.

As I read the fasting regulations for the Great Fast this year it was stated that they are mandatory for everyone receiving the Eucharist. Before the change several years ago (in the Byzantine Catholic Church) the ages of mandatory fasting were like 8 to 65, or 72, somewhere in that range. The very young and elderly were exempt from mandatory fasting.

Now, as this relates to young children who receive the Eucharist with Baptism, the one hour fast is very sensible, compared to a three hour, or from midnight.

How have the Eastern Churches which have always had infant Communion dealt with the Eucharist fast? Do they individual receive pastoral exemptions?

Fr Deacon Paul

Alice, you are so right...but I'd also add and

I am also curious to know what is expected for parents of children - for me the problem is that my child can't understand (if I really tried to explain it) that she shouldn't eat before communion - when she feels very hungry my wife gives her something but I try to discourage my wife and daughter from doing this whenever possible. She is now 4 1/2 years old. What do other parents do and are there any guidelines about this? I don't like the idea in any case of giving children things to eat in church but I see some others giving a piece of bread, for instance, but I don't like the idea of eating in church even for small kids. Nursing or bottle feeding, that's a totally different thing and is of course OK.

I once served a parish where one of the grannies had the pious custom of giving the young altar boys some sweets about midway through the 12 Gospels service on Holy Thursday!

Fr. Serge