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I understand the New York Post ran a story recently on a movement for canonization of Fr. Mychal Judge, the priest who died in the WTC disaster. Has anyone seen this story or know more about this?

Axios

www.axios.net [axios.net]

I haven't heard anything about it...however, if something like that were to happen the cause would probably have to be started by the Franciscans since he was a Friar Minor. I think he could almost be considered a martyr for the faith since he gave his life in order to administer the Sacraments in a dangerous situation.

By the way, welcome Axios to the forum!

Don

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Don in Kansas ]

Why would only a priest be canonized a saint and not the others who helped, especially other Catholics?

This reminds me of the space-shuttle crash back in the late 80s. How soon we forgot that a half dozen or so others ALSO died in the explosion other than the school teacher.

Searching for a 'saint' in either disaster is really a search to feel better. It has nothing to do with the victims of either disaster.

If Fr. Judge had a choice - as one who gave his life for other - he would probably reject the pious need to make a saint of him at the expense of those he helped.

Why him? One thing his Order would have the money and the know how to get it done. It is one of the main reasons why most canonized saints are priests and religious or have some connection to a religious order (tertiaries for example. You are correct, if he was a truly saintly man and son of St. Francis he would certainly be upset at the idea or at least have a big laugh. As for the worthiness of the others, only God can say...just as only God can say about this good Friar. Maybe he can serve as a symbol of all men and women of goodwill who died in this tragedy?
Don

I had met Fr. Judge once. He was Chaplin to the Firefighters Union and the New York Chapter of Dignity. He had a remarkable charm.

Do you what date the NY Post article ran?

K.

http://www.hrc.org/newsreleases/2001/articles/010920lgny_judge.asp

No to the canonization. I and the Church don't presume to know the state of Fr Judge's or anybody's soul, but this fact about his life, unless Fr Judge's stance re: practicing homosexuals changed, means he never will be canonized.

http://oldworldrus.com

The Catholic Church firmly holds and declares that laymen outside communion with the Universal Pastor do not determine canonization.

Rome has spoken! The matter is settled!

Tiresome ad hominem directed at me, intended to divert attention from the issue raised — an advocate of the gay lifestyle cannot be canonized a Catholic saint. The Catholic Church will not canonize someone who either in lifestyle or teaching dissented from its magisterium. My status outside the Catholic communion has nothing to do with what I wrote. One need not be a member to understand and quote a group's rules.

I was moved by the end of Fr Judge's life and hope that in the later years of his life his views on homosexual acts changed to agree with Holy Tradition, as the magisterium's do. Regardless, I do not claim to know the state of his soul.

http://oldworldrus.com

Now it makes sense ...
Fr. Judge, a gayman and advocate of gay rights and opponent of a Catholic Cardinal, dies in the WTC. Fr. Judge is singled out by Axios, an advocate of gays in the Byzantine Church (see his website), who writes about a 'movement' that seeks for his canonization. Canonization is meant for a representative of the gay rights movement.


Kurt wrote: "The Catholic Church firmly holds and declares that laymen outside communion with the Universal Pastor do not determine canonization.
Rome has spoken! The matter is settled!"

Unless you are Eastern Catholics and must wait for Rome to canonize your saints for you. LOL!!!
:p

BTW, if the Church refused to canonize Fr. Thomas Merton they certainly won't canonize Fr. Fudge.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Edwin ]

Dear Serge,

What was the Friar's stance on homosexuality? Do we know this for sure?

Alex

Edwin,

Me too. But Axios has been a perfect gentleman on the forum and has my welcome. All I ask is he not misrepresent the group Axios as an approved part of the Orthodox Church. He never has done that.

Serge

http://oldworldrus.com

Alex,

See my post higher up on this thread — the one with two live links. The link at the top of the post is to a story that confirms that at one point (1980s) Fr Judge was allied with dissenters from the Catholic Church regarding homosexual acts.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Serge ]

Dear Serge,

Yes, but, as you yourself said, we don't know what the Friar believed before he died or his views later on. We'll how this whole thing unfolds, but certainly the desire to see a saint emerge from this whole tragedy is both natural and probably inevitable.

I agree with your assessment of Axios and his site. We must needs be sensitive to this issue etc. as you said.

There have been saints of homosexual orientation in the past such as St Aelred who admitted as much in his writings but declared himself to be celibate.

The overtly homosexual King Edward II of England was surrounded by a local cult upon his terrible death and a canonization process at Rome existed for about a century, ending for political, rather than theological reasons.

To this day, his alabaster tomb at Durham Cathedral is visited by tourists and even modern-day pilgrims.

One Catholic priest suggested to me once that a problem with studying the history of the relation of the Church to homosexuality is that the ancient Roman aristocracy often practiced it as a way to place themselves "above" the plebeian classes by doing things they wouldn't normally do (another was overeating to the point of belching).

Alex

Alex, canonization is based on public record. If a person is not canonized or dropped early on in the process, there is no judgement intended or implied on that person's soul. I don't know if Fr Judge changed his mind. If there is proof he did, then the way to canonization would be open.

Edward II... as seen in Braveheart? That prince didn't look very saintly in the movie, as it was strongly implied he was living a gay lifestyle.

Thanks for the St Aelred info: an inspiration to homosexuals trying to do right.

http://oldworldrus.com

the ancient Roman aristocracy often practiced it as a way to place themselves "above" the plebeian classes by doing things they wouldn't normally do

Come to think of it, the hipster/Hollywood aristocracy today is like that, "swinging' partly in order to thumb their noses at "bourgeois' morals.

http://oldworldrus.com