The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
fslobodzian, ArchibaldHeidenr, Fernholz, EasternLight, AthosEnjoyer
6,167 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 289 guests, and 92 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,516
Posts417,589
Members6,167
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 706
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 706
Christ is Risen! Indeed He is risen!

Hi All, I thought the Trisagion prayers and Heavenly King were replaced by Christ is risen until Pentacost. Am I remembering correctly or not? Thanks for your help.


Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 5
J
Job Offline
Cantor
Member
Cantor
Member
J Offline
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 5
Christ is Risen!

I know that was how it had been done in the Ruthenian Church. Although, I remember several years back when I was still with the BCC (Eparchy of Passaic) that the replacing of things such as the Trisagion and O Heavenly King... with Christ is Risen was being done away with, the only exception was during bright week.

Job

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
Indeed He is risen!e

During the forty days of Pascha (i.e. from Pascha till the leavetaking of Pascha, the Wednesday before Ascension), Christ is risen (x3) is _added_ at the start of pretty much each service, including Vespers, Matins and the Divine Liturgy. At those services which begin with "Glory to you, our God.... O Heavenly King...", these are _omitted_ during the same forty days, and the service continues with the Trisagion ("Holy God").

So "Heavenly King" is omitted from the "usual beginning prayers". The trisagion prayers are otherwise said as usual.

What I believe Job is referring to is the reduction of number of times "Christ is risen" is sung at the Divine Liturgy after Bright Week, to match the provisions in the liturgical books of the Ruthenian recension.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 439
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 439
ByzKat is correct as to the rubrics.

"Christ is Risen" replaces the beginning prayers for the period of Paschaltide--i.e., up to and including the Leave-taking of Pascha (day before the Ascension).

After "Christ is Risen", we continue with the Trisagion. From the Ascension to Pentecost, the beginning prayers ("Glory to God ...") return, but we do not chant the Hymn to the Holy Spirit ("O Heavenly King, Consoler, Spirit of Truth ...") until the Holy Spirit descends at Pentecost.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
ajk Offline
Member
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
Originally Posted by ByzKat
What I believe Job is referring to is the reduction of number of times "Christ is risen" is sung at the Divine Liturgy after Bright Week, to match the provisions in the liturgical books of the Ruthenian recension.

When the custom that has been called creeping-Paschalism was changed, I was out of the loop and never saw the given reference to the Recension or the actual new directive. Where exactly is it in the Ruthenian Recension texts. Thanks.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,231
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,231
Does anyone know, has ACROD and the UGCC corrected their liturgies after Bright Week to be in conformity with the Ruthenian Recension yet as the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church has? What about in Europe?

ajk, when you say the "Ruthenian Recension texts," do you mean the typical edition published in Rome in the 1940's that UGCC and RBCC use?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,231
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,231
Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by ByzKat
What I believe Job is referring to is the reduction of number of times "Christ is risen" is sung at the Divine Liturgy after Bright Week, to match the provisions in the liturgical books of the Ruthenian recension.

When the custom that has been called creeping-Paschalism was changed, I was out of the loop and never saw the given reference to the Recension or the actual new directive. Where exactly is it in the Ruthenian Recension texts. Thanks.

Actually, pgs. 170, 175, and 177 of the new pew book give the instructions on what to sing when (ie. what is replaced by "Christ is risen") during Bright Week and then after until Ascension. Is that the directive that you were looking for?

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
Father Deacon,

The rubrics for singing "Christ is risen" at the end of the Divine Liturgy on the Sunday of Pascha, and during Bright Week, can be found in the Ruthenian Apostol, as the alternate dismissal section at the end of the order of the Divine Liturgy - in the large Apostol, page 738.

The rubrics for the the start of the Divine Liturgy from the Sunday of Saint Thomas to the leaveetaking of Pascha can be found in the Apostol in the propers for Thomas Sunday, page 534.

The rubrics for the end of the Divine Liturgy, for the same period, are in the Apostol on page 535.

As far as I can determine, they match the corresponding order in the new People's Book, EXCEPT that the Slavonic edition has the priest singing all three repetitions of the Christ is risen at the beginning of the Divine Liturgy, with the people singing only the conclusion of the third repetition; while in the new English books, the priest sings once and the people twice.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

(I THINK the page numbers are right, I had to jot them down over lunch.)

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 5
J
Job Offline
Cantor
Member
Cantor
Member
J Offline
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 5
Quote
the Slavonic edition has the priest singing all three repetitions of the Christ is risen at the beginning of the Divine Liturgy, with the people singing only the conclusion of the third repetition;


That is my understanding of how it is done in the OCA. My parish priest (ACROD) came from the OCA and does it that way as well.

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 5
J
Job Offline
Cantor
Member
Cantor
Member
J Offline
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by John K
Does anyone know, has ACROD and the UGCC corrected their liturgies after Bright Week to be in conformity with the Ruthenian Recension yet as the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church has? What about in Europe?

ajk, when you say the "Ruthenian Recension texts," do you mean the typical edition published in Rome in the 1940's that UGCC and RBCC use?

ACROD uses the version the BCC used to use (changes throughout the 40 days until Ascension Thursday...not only during bright week). I would hope that it would remain so, since it has been in use for decades and has become a local variation...

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
ajk Offline
Member
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
Originally Posted by John K
ajk, when you say the "Ruthenian Recension texts," do you mean the typical edition published in Rome in the 1940's that UGCC and RBCC use?
Yes.

Originally Posted by John K
Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by ByzKat
What I believe Job is referring to is the reduction of number of times "Christ is risen" is sung at the Divine Liturgy after Bright Week, to match the provisions in the liturgical books of the Ruthenian recension.

When the custom that has been called creeping-Paschalism was changed, I was out of the loop and never saw the given reference to the Recension or the actual new directive. Where exactly is it in the Ruthenian Recension texts. Thanks.

Actually, pgs. 170, 175, and 177 of the new pew book give the instructions on what to sing when (ie. what is replaced by "Christ is risen") during Bright Week and then after until Ascension. Is that the directive that you were looking for?

No because the RDL books are unreliable, inconsistent witnesses as to what is found in the Slavonic Recension texts.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
ajk Offline
Member
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
Originally Posted by ByzKat
Yours in Christ,
Jeff

(I THINK the page numbers are right, I had to jot them down over lunch.)

Jeff, thanks; I'll look them up, and probably comment further in the RDL forum.


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Member
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
How can the bishops appeal to the authority of the Ruthenian official books for little rubrics when they openly reject these same books regarding the Holy Liturgy?

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
ajk Offline
Member
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 33
I've started a thread in the RDL forum to address specifics concerning the Ruthenian usages, link.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
Lady Byzantine,

To the best of my knowledge, our bishops haven't appealed to the authority of these boks. Neither have any of them referred to "creeping Paschalism." As far as I can tell, they have made changes to existing customers, or enshrined them in particular liturgical law, as they thought best.

All the appeals that I have heard to the Ruthenian recension books, relative to the liturgy of the Byzantine Catholic Church, have been on this board. And yet, when BCC liturgical publications have moved TOWARD the Ruthenian recension books, there have been complaints here - the issues of "Christ is risen", and the psalmody at the Presanctified Liturgy, being examples.

It may very well be that many of these "customary" changes come from a time when both the BCC and ACROD celebrated the Divine Liturgy to the almost complete exclusion of the other servics, and even then only on Sundays. So for example, I have heard the explanations given that "Christ is risen" is sung extra times during the Paschal season because we AREN'T in church every day of Bright Week; and that the custom of mirovanije at the end of the Divine Liturgy is because we don't HAVE Litija with distribution of blessed bread, and anonting with oil at Matins.

I have little doubt that as the other services come back into use, there will be conflicts over which customs to keep. We have already seen that with the singing of Passion hymns and the Presanctified Liturgy.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0