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Altar Server, yes there are. One's in D.C.

"Byzantinizations" do kind of bother me a bit about WRV parishes. Bells on censers? Really?

You know one strange thing that I've brought up before is that in Western liturgical traditions, even for the saints' propers of the day, the saint himself is rarely invoked directly. Rather, it's mostly like, "Thou didst raise up St. So-and-So to do such-and-such for Thy Church, grant, Lord, that through St. So-and-So's intercession we may do such-and-such." No direct invocation of the saint there, whereas in Eastern liturgy it seems it is more common to directly invoke the saint in the feast day propers.

Anyone know why?

Alexis

As someone mentioned, I forgot to list the commemoration of the departed in the additions to the BCP liturgy.
The prayer "I believe and I confess..." is both immediately before the communion and immediately after the elevation (I am including the congregations threefold response of "Lord, I am not worthy..." as part of the elevation).
Logos-Alexis is correct about the invocation of the saints being indirect. These are the types of prayers I was refering to. I have read previously (I believe on this forum) that in the Latin tradition only God is directly invoked at the altar during mass; hence, the invocations of saints take the form of a commemoration and invocation of God through the intercessions of the saints rather than a direct prayer to the saint.
An example of this is the Embolismus prayer after the Our Father.
"Deliver us we beseech Thee, O Lord, from all evils past, present, and to come. And at the intercession of the the Blessed and glorious Ever-Virgin Mary, Peter, Paul, Andrew, and all the saints ..."

Gregg

A couple more points.
One regarding byzantinizations (that is a diificullt word to type). At St. Peter we don't have bells on the censers. Several years ago Fr. Anthony did have a beard, but now he is clean shaven. We do have two icons on either side of the altar: one BVM and one ICXC on the same sides as they would be on the iconostasis in a Byzantine church. It seems to me that the main Byzantinization (that darn word got me again) is the explicit epiclesis; however, I was Evangelical/Reformed prior to becoming Orthodox, so there may be other subtle things that I fail to recognize as Byzantine.
Secondly, the Liturgy of St. Tikhon is derived from the American as opposed to the English BCP. My understanding is that the American BCP is based more on the old Scottish BCP than the English. The Scottish is in turn based on the work of the English Non-Jurors who attempted union with Moscow in the 17th or 18th century. It reflects the Sarum Missal from the 11th century.

Gregg

Gregg,

Interesting what you say about indirect invocation being the Latin tradition during Mass. But then what about at Easter Vigil Masses, ordination Masses, etc. where the Litany of the Saints is chanted - a litany which is right in the middle of Holy Mass and is about as direct as it gets?

Alexis

If you will compare the liturgy of the Episcopalian Church of the Ascension and St. Agnes (one of DC's two highest High Church parishes):

http://ascensionandsaintagnes.org/html/mass/ordinary/massofcatechumens.htm

http://ascensionandsaintagnes.org/html/mass/ordinary/massoffaithful.htm

It is identical to the Liturgy of St. Tikhon [members.tripod.com] . This makes me repeat the question: exactly from what Episcopalian / Anglican source is the Liturgy of St. Tikhon derived from?

Slightly bizarre Latin version of the Credo:

This is nonsense; adding the suffix "que" already means "and"; adding also the particle "et" merely doubles the conjunction.

Fr. Serge

Generations of Latin teachers will be rotating in their graves

And anyway, how are you supposed to sing this using Gregorian chant? You can't just randomly add a syllable without disrupting the music.

One of the most beautiful (and nonsensical*) things to me about the Anglican liturgy is the (optional) saying of the Decalogue.

Alexis

*It is somewhat nonsensical to me because one of the Ten Commandments is to keep the Sabbath holy. I guess it makes sense that Saturday should be kept just as holy as every other day of the week, but the fact is that the Sabbath is no longer relevant. So this is odd to me to include in Christian liturgy. Sunday, of course, is not the Sabbath. In fact the other Ten Commandments did not mean what they are interpreted to mean by Christians today, but the others could at least be reinterpreted to fit a Christian context.

Logos-Alexis,

You are correct that the Litany of the Saints is an exception to the indirect invocation of saints. I do not know the explanation for this. Actually, I am not certain that my previous explanation regarding indirect invocation being the Latin tradition is correct, but I have read this. I will attempt to clarify with my priest.

Asian Pilgrim,

When I linked to the website you listed, I found under the heading prayer links for Morning and Evening Prayer which state that it is the text of 1928 American BCP. So I assume the Mass would be also. It appears to me to be the 1928 US BCP Mass. St. Tikhon began his work in the early 1900s, but was recalled to Moscow before it's completion. It was completed in (I believe) the 50s by the Antiochians who named it in honor of St. Tikhon. So by that time they were working from the 1928 BCP.

Gregg

OK, the thread is a bit stale, but so topical . . .

This morning, things were going just too well; the charcoal even lit cleanly on the first flame.

This month, we have the mobledan (sp?) for St. Jude each month. As I picked up the censor to follow Father out, I grabbed something wrong and tangled it, and it wouldn't untangle. No problem, there are two more on the other side; I gathered one, transferred the charcoal, and headed out. Fine, save for the incense being burned out entirely by the time Father needed it

The coal then decided to burn out entirely. Fine, I lit another; enough time before the Anaphora . . .

All went well, right until a bell flew off as Father was censing the precious gifts . . .

*sigh*

I spoke with Brother Jude later (whose family lent the relics of St. Jude we have this month), and he actually noticed the difference in sound once the bell flew off . . .

I wasn't quite sure on protocol, but when Father handed me the censor, I reached down to gather the lose bell (he was doing the same).

This, of course, popped the lower three snaps on my cassock.

hawk, glad that he wasn't performing brain surgery this morning

I am increasingly convinced that some of these mishaps in the Liturgy are one of God's tools for teaching us humility.

The best one I can remember was one time while using a cedar bough as an aspergilium I flicked it with such vigor that the bough broke and flew into the gallery (balcony).

Censors are normally a nuisance, but in this instance I can sympathize with him - with such mishandling it's no wonder the censor got his back up!

Fr. Serge

Guys thank you so much for those posts

Dochawk - you are now responsible for me having to clean porridge off my lappy's screen

It's much more amusing a day later than in the panic of the moment . . .

*ACK* Father needs this in a moment or two! What now???!!!1

Even at the time, I realized that without pressure, I surely could untangle the censer, prudence seemed to dictate getting another . . .

Fortunately, Father had a sense of humor about it all (and managed to maintain his composure when the bell flew off . . .)
hawk

thanks to dochawk. Alas, I have no idea what to do about porridge on a computer screen!

Fr. Serge