www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L

Pavel

I take your point - but this ' mix and match type thing 'is not made in a sensible way

If we are not told that this is a way of trying to include every tradition into each service - then I fear it's going to , once more , lead to priests doing their own thing again - using these services as a model.

How many RC Priests do know how the Eastern Services are constructed - very few I would think ?

This gives a very bad impression and let's be honest we all know how much Latin Liturgy has suffered in the past - usually put down to 'pastoral sensitivity'

The article states the Pope will celebrate a vespers service in the Melkite Cathedral. It does not state the service will be conducted according to the Melkite or any one church's ritual.
This visit being a historical event, is it that big a deal if pieces are taken from different ritual services and incorporated as one? Would one prefer a different church venue be used for such a service other than the Melkite Cathedral?

Point well taken! It is true this is going to be an historical event, and I don't want to be unduly critical. On the contrary, I hope and pray that this service will be a moment of grace and prayer for all those who participate in it.

However, I think most of us on this forum are keenly interested in liturgical matters, and it seems to me that we do like to make our opinions known

John K: yes, the translations of the psalms are those of Archbishop Raya and Baron de Vinck.

I don't suppose anybody knows when exactly the Vespers will take place and if EWTN is covering it?

"This visit being a historical event, is it that big a deal if pieces are taken from different ritual services and incorporated as one? Would one prefer a different church venue be used for such a service other than the Melkite Cathedral?"

I oppose the admixture of different rites under all circumstances, and so, in theory, does the Catholic Church--otherwise why mandate delatinization of the Eastern Catholic Churches through the promulgation of canons, decrees, encyclicals and pastoral letters going back more than a century? When, for the sake of a photo op, the Holy See creates sui generis rituals that are a pastiche of different rites, it sends a very mixed message to the Eastern Churches, both in and out of communion with Rome. It creates one of those classic "Do as I say, not as I do" situations, doubly unfortunate when the person and institution in question is supposed to represent the focus of unity within the Church by setting an example for all.

Again, to paraphrase that French general, "It is magnificent, but it is not Vespers".

EWTN Schedule for Pope Benedict in the Holy Land [ewtn.com]

Vespers is on Saturday at 10:30AM ET (live)and again at 6:00PM.

thank you much!

Stuart,

My not being a liturgical scholar nor stickler,(though I do abhor liturgical abuse, which I'm sure more than a few will find this service as being such), I suppose you are correct here. Perhaps they should have labelled this a "Catholic Amalgamated Evening Prayer Service" or something of the like.

I anxiously await the Pope's take on the goings on and I pray the prayers rise to Heaven and be accepted at the foot His Holy Throne nonetheless.

Bill

I am watching the live coverage of the Pope's arrival to Jordan and how cool ! I believe i counted the 5 Catholic patriarchs of the East: Maronite, Syriac, Melkite, Chaldean, and Armenian !

Patriarch Nasrallah Peter- Maronite
Patriarch Ignace Ignace Yousif III-Syriac
Patrirch Emmanuel III-Chaldean
Patriarch Nersos Bedros XIX-Armenian
Patriarch Gregory III- Melkite

I did not see the Coptic Catholic Patriarch Antonios or the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Foud Twal

http://www.gcatholic.com/hierarchy/patriarchs.htm

Looking at this hierarchy chart of Patriarchs, it lists the Armenian and Chaldean Patriarchs as Minor Eastern-rite Patriarch, any reason why?

Giga-Catholic Information is an excellent website and usually very informative, but here I believe they have made a mistake. There is no such thing as a "minor Eastern-rite patriarch." According to canon 59 § 1 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches all patriarchs of Eastern Catholic churches are equal by virtue of the patriarchal dignity (except for a precedence of honor), despite the fact that some patriarchal sees were created later than others.

for any interested in watching the vespers live from Amman, Jordan. It will be shown on EWTN, or www.ewtn.com [ewtn.com] soon at 10:30 Eastern Time

http://www.ewtn.com/holyland2009/coverage.htm

I hope they also make the video available "on demand" after it has been shown live.