www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L

Go here [youtube.com] to the 2:00 mark to see him. Jordan having a more traditional, conservative atmosphere explains why Father Nabil is one of the few priests you see wearing their clerical robes.

I don't think he used them improperly. Rather, it just seemed a bit improvised. (You could see the Greek and Latin masters of ceremonies sticking their heads together a minute before.) The trikeria and dikeria were offered to the Holy Father, who blessed them, but didn't take them. Then, it dawned on him that he should actually take them and bless the people with them, which he did, to huge applause!

So, there was simply a moment of hesitation, not anything improper, as far as I can tell. Really, it was rather charming and touching, in a slightly disorganized sort of way

Alexis,

I think the Vatican was trying to portray it is Byzantine Vespers, otherwise why would it be in a Melkite Cathedral, beginning much the same as a tradition Vespers liturgy, with the priests adding the phelonia before the Entrance?

As mentioned by someone else he appeared rather confused when they were presented to him, it took quite a while for him to realize what he needed to do.

As for the decorum, it was mentioned that they essentially "mobbed" him, but also I do not think cheers and chanting his name during part of the service or while in Temple are appropriate.

Ed

Erie Byz the Fact that the Holy Father did not preside should tell you somthing and from what I remember there were deacons you see one swinging a censer during the entrance procession.

David

Altar Server, the Pope "presided" in a way similar to the way normal way an Eastern Bishop would--i.e., from the throne.

I noticed a sub-deacon, but not a deacon. The Ektene (Litany of Peace) was chanted by a priest.

The Pope did use the "zicari" and "trikari"(as we say in Arabic) improperly. Although he started more or less correctly, uniting both (but not elevating them sufficiently high), he didn`t proceed in alternating them. The Pope, instead, separated one from another extremely, as to do an arm of a cross (similarly to a Maronite blessing with the holy gifts, I think).

It is important to say, as I think no one has said it until now, that the Pope entered the Cathedral with the Byzantine episcopal staff, whose "flag" (pardon, what is the name?) had the Patriarch`s coat of arms in itself printed. After the office, our Patriarch gave the staff to Benedict XVI as a gift (by the way, the Archbishop of Jordania, Msgr Yasser Ayach, gave to him an stunning icon of St Peter and St Paul and a Bible in Arabic).

In spite of the differences to the original rite, I liked very much to watch our Pope celebrating a Byzantine office in a Melkite Church. And it will serve as an strong argument to convince ignorant people of the reality of the Eastern Churches.

And it was remarkably to me to watch and understand a some-lenghtly discourse of our Patriarch (which was almost in French), being still more moved by his vivacity, love and youthness.

Unfortunately, the transmission of "Tele Lumière" (a famous and wonderful Arabic Christian channel) was without the audio of the Church almost in the entirety of the celebration, having only the voice of the narrator (at least it was what happened at my granfather`s house, where I went to watch the Vespers). I expect it hadn`t happened to the other people, specially those in the Middle East. But, thank God, I had the idea to turn on the computer and follow the audio through the site of "Canção Nova", a Brazilian Catholic channel, while I stayed with the better image of "Tele Lumière".

No idea why HH had preside from where he was in front of the Iconostas. Never seen this before anywhere. The commentator had no idea who was doing the welcome in the cathedral and kept referring to various bishops as "ordinaries". Also had no idea of the history of the Kingdom and just made things up in regard to why the First welcome was given in French and then had no explanation why the second speaker used English.

Last evening I watched the Pope celebrating Vespers in Amman, Jordan. Perhaps you all can clear something up for me. He was celebrating it in a Greek Melkite Church, which from all appearances seemed to be Orthodox - the chanting (although definitely mid-Eastern), their Priests wore the same type of robes and head coverings, and it appeared to me that they crossed themselves as do Orthodox - from right to left. They mentioned during the broadcast that they were in full Communion with the West.
Could someone please shed some light on this? Are they Catholic or Orthodox? And, is this another indicator of the possible reunification of the West and the East?
Many thanks ....
abby
<*)))><

OK, I see.

It seems pretty clear that this part of the liturgy had not been rehearsed in advance. In a way, it was interesting and touching to see how the Pope dealt with an unfamiliar situation. When he celebrates the Latin rite, which he knows intimately, he is always completely in control, but here he seemed a bit lost for a moment, before managing to improvise something

Really wonderful gifts!


So many Western Catholics have no idea that the Eastern Catholic Churches even exist or what they mean. Many people also have no idea that there are Arab Christians! Hopefully this three-day visit by the Pope to Jordan will help raise the awareness of Western Christians with regard to both the Eastern Catholic Churches and our Arab Christian brethren.

Yes, I too was struck by his Beatitude's energy and vivacity!

I think that for a service like this there shouldn't be too much commentary, because it distracts from what is going on. And of course the commentator should be an expert who knows what he is talking about!

Dear Abby,

I think you said somewhere on the forum that you are a Western-rite Antiochian Orthodox. Just as there are Western-rite Orthodox who use a Western liturgy, there are also Eastern-rite Catholics who use different Eastern liturgies: Armenian, Byzantine, Chaldean, Coptic, Ethiopic, Maronite, Syriac, and so on.

The Eastern Catholics form their own Eastern Catholic Churches with their own Bishops and Patriarchs, all in full communion with the Pope.

Thus, for example, at the beginning of Vespers, Pope Benedict was welcomed first in French by the Greek Melkite Patriarch Gregory III (Lahham) of Antioch and all the East, of Alexandria and of Jerusalem. The Pope was then welcomed in English by the Greek Melkite Archbishop Yasser (Ayyash) of Petra and Philadelphia (Amman, Jordan).

Also present during Vespers were the patriarchs of four other Eastern Catholic Churches (Armenian Catholic, Chaldean, Maronite and Syriac Catholic).

The Greek Melkite Church in the United States [melkite.org] is led by Archbishop Cyril (Bustros), Bishop of Newton, Massachusetts.

In the Middle East, relations between Greek Melkite Catholics and Antiochian Orthodox generally seem to be very warm and friendly. In other places, unfortunately, there are more tensions between Orthodox and Eastern Catholics, for example in Ukraine.

In fact, surprisingly many Catholics and Orthodox know very little about the Eastern Catholic Churches. I think one of the aims of the Byzcath forum is to make it possible for more people to learn about the Eastern Churches in general and the Eastern Catholic Churches in particular.

A good website with extensive information on all the different Eastern Churches, both Catholic and Orthodox, is the website of CNEWA (the Catholic Near East Welfare Association): http://www.cnewa.org/generalpg-verus.aspx?pageID=182

My guess is that they moved the bishop's stall from the side of the nave to in front of the iconostas so that everyone in the congregation could see the Pope during the service.

Dave

Actually, it might be a local custom to have the bishop's throne in this place. I have seen a similar arrangement in the Melkite Cathedral in Damascus during a Divine Liturgy with Patriarch Maximos V of blessed memory.

Latic Catholic gave you some good general information on the various Eastern Catholic Churches, but since you're Antiochian yourself it might be good to know a bit more about the Melkite Church specifically.

The Antiochian Orthodox Church and the Melkite Church split in 1724, when the Patriarch of Antioch and most of the Synod of Bishops entered Communion with Rome, while some Bishops decided to stay with Constantinople. Those who entered Communion with Rome became known as the Melkite Church (which was the name of the Church of Antioch since before that time), and those who stayed with Constantinople became generally known as the Antiochian Orthodox Church. In the native lands of the Middle East, however, they are typically known as "Roum Catolic" for the Melkites, and "Roum Ortodox" for the Antiochians.

We share the same Liturgy, Vestments, and theology, but the Melkite Church is obviously with Rome and therefore Catholic, while the Antiochian Church is with the Eastern Orthodox Churches. There is often a LOT of crossover between the Melkites and Middle-Eastern Antiochians, however, and on "ground level" there is often little distinction made. Many of the members of my Melkite parish, for example, are actually Antiochian Orthodox (including several members of the Parish Council). There is a lot of intermarriage, and those from one Church will often go to the other if there is none of their own in the area (this includes those cases where there may be other Catholic or Orthodox Churches nearby; many times the Melkites and Antiochians will attend eachother's parishes rather than go to a Roman or Russian Orthodox church for example). This isn't the "rule", but it's common enough to be recognized as a fairly regular practice.

Hope that helps!

Peace and God bless!

Thank you!

Antiochian Orthodox on a Catholic church's parish council? That's something I've never heard of before!

I agree with the statements that the faithful should refrain from chanting the Pope's name and applauding during a service. I DID see pictures where people were literally crawling over the crowds to try to get closer to the Pontiff. I hate to use stereotypes, but often people of the Mediterranean and Middle East are much more emotionally expressive than people from Europe north of the Alps, and Americans. I don't think the English or Swedes would ever crawl over people and scream like banshees to get a hand toward the Pope, but somehow that these Middle Easterners would doesn't surprise me. Southern Italians, Greeks, Lebanese, Arabs, etc. can get a little excited when it comes to big events in life, I find!

And this is coming from a Sicilian-American, so please no one take offense!

Alexis