www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Underlying cause of the current situatuion

Nice Find!

Thanks!

Some good points, but as usual there is the Latin tendency to lump married priesthood in with modernism, liberalism, etc. This is tough for us Eastern Catholics with an ancient tradition of married clergy.

When will the Latin church ever come to grips with and admit that clerical celibacy was not enforced for about 2/3 of her existence? And consider the fact that more recently married Episcopalians and Lutherans have been accepted as priests in the Latin Church, generally with great success?

Interesting article-

the rationalism, revelation points were the most interesting. Most of it however, tends to focus on the "conspiracy theory" side.

But need not fear my far right Christians, most of the new seminarians are hard core traditionalists, even in the Eastern Churches too, which is a good thing, becasue we are serious about our traditions.

Communism/socialism has more in common with Christianity than pure Capitalism and the one thing this columnist supports is the mainstream American/Apple pie/ consumer Christianity which has led much of our country into the current spiritual black hole we find ourselves in.

ALity

This is my first post. I have been reading posts on this bulletin board in an attempt to learn about the Byzantine Catholic church, as I am a newcomer. We have recently joined Sts. Cyril and Methodius Church in NC. While my knowledge of the Church is relatively limited, as an economist I do know something about capitalism and communism. This is why I feel like
I could not let this comment go unchallenged.

"Communism/socialism has more in common with Christianity than pure Capitalism"

Communism/socialism is based on government force,the denial of individual
autonomy, and the exaltation of the state. This is accomplished through the
denial of property rights to the citizens. The denial of property rights
implies the denial all rights except for what the state permits. Under
communism rights emanate from the state not from God. Capitalism is based on
personal liberty, voluntary interaction of the citizenry, and individual
responsibility. This is accomplished by recognizing the individual's rights
to use the fruits of their efforts, i.e. property rights, in their pursuit of happiness as they
define it, including for charitable and altruistic purposes. Only voluntary altruism can truly be considered moral. Under capitalism coercion and force either by the state or by individual citizens is not legitimate.
Depending on the philosopher, rights emanate from "man's nature" or the "Creator"
not the state. I cannot see how Christianity has more in common with the former than the latter. Furthermore, it seems that God's commandment not to steal implies a recognition of the right to own property. The concept of theft is meaningless outside of a system of private property rights. Under true communism theft is meaningless because no one is allowed to own
anything.

Roy

This is totally off-topic, and probably deserves a separate post.

The Catholic historian Hillaire Belloc (rightly, I believe) considered communism, socialism and industrial capitalism as inherently evil. In his book "Survivals and New Arrivals" he proposes that the root of industrial capitalism and its manifestation in the Industrial Revolution is a theological one, rooted in the Reformation. He also calls Socialism "the attendent parasite" of industrial capitalism.

Capitalism creates by its very nature economic inequity and a structure of wage slavery. Just look at the U.S., we have to pass laws to set a minimum wage because those in economic power will not take just action themselves. This is the reality. And even then we all know that someone living strictly on minimum wage income will have a tough go of it.

Pope Pius XII wrote extensively on the obligations of Catholic employers as well as just working conditions and outlining conditions where creation of unions are entirely justified.

I seem to hit the send button too soon too often...

I do agree with the point about private property ownership wholeheartedly. This is a hallmark of any society with real ideals of freedom.

As someone who has a small family farm I have experienced first hand the economic difficulties that our industrial capitalistic system has created in agriculture. Here in Kansas the reality is that family farms are generally a thing of the past unless like me one can get a full-time job and make farming a hobby.

An Excellent article that many should read in this forum. More than ever our Bishops need our prayers!

Isn't the economic issue fairly well covrred by your social encyclicals that condemn both Communism and capitalism?

Axios

As I stated before, I am here to learn and will not follow-up on this discussion further. It would certainly take us away from the purpose of this discussion group. But for an organization that is devoted to examining the relationship between Christianity and capitalism I recommend the web site of the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty, www.acton.org. [acton.org.] The institute was founded and is run by Father Robert Sirico.

Roy

Dear Friends,

As a sociologist, I've had Marxism-Leninism vs Capitalism up to HERE!

One prof once mentioned a study on Catholicism, Protestantism and Judaism in the U.S.

He said that the study found that all those three religions, in fact, worshipped the same God.

The United States . . .

Alex

Dear Roy,

Welcome to the forum! A very interesting debate, and you are right to point to the philosophical questions which need to be settled and agreed, before sweeping statements should be made.

The article cited above is interesting. There is always a conspiracy theory in the wings. But sometimes a problem is simply a problem, and a mistake is simply a mistake. The bishops made a mistake, and they now have a problem.

The future of the Church is very much in the hands of God, and no earthly battle for its heart or soul depends ultimately upon us, or upon liberals or conservatives, capitalists or socialists. "We have none other that fighteth for us..."

That 'caveat' having been uttered, the article cited is interesting, and the points well made.

Elias

Father, bless!

And an appropriate caveat it is, and an interesting article. Our God is the God of communists, capitalists, naturists, herbalists, liberals and conservatives alike and may He have mercy on us all.