www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West ROCOR / ROCA - What's the difference?

Also, could someone enlighten me as to when ROCOR (The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia) was established? What is the difference between ROCOR and the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, or are these just two different names for the same ecclesial entity?

Finally, has ROCOR officially reconciled with Moscow?

S

Ok - before I started messing with Byzantinemo's original post - to get these questions separated from the rest - Pavel had answered "yes" and "yes" to the above questions.

I had then replied that, albeit that was true, variants on 'ROCA' had quite a history by themselves (Paul's reply and my original got lost in the thread shuffle, hence the need for this little editorial reprise)

Many years,

Neil

some folk are very successfully causing panic among the readers

I was beginning to wonder if I had been seeing things

ROCOR and the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad are two names for the same thing. It was started in Europe by exiled Russian bishops in 1920 and moved its headquarters to New York City in 1949. Most of its people in America are WWII-era refugees from Russia and their descendants with a few post-1990 immigrants and a few converts.

It officially reconciled with Moscow two years ago.

There are a very few parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia which refused the reconciliation with the Moscow Patriarchate. Some of them have taken the collective name of "the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad".

Fr. Serge

In the English language services of our Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (the Church with Metropolitan Hilarion [Kapral] as its First Hierarch), the Primate is always styled "First Hierarch of the Russian Church Abroad." So regardless of what some schismatics may tell you, both terms ROCOR and ROCA are appropriate for our Church. These schismatics used to use the term Russian Orthodox Church in Exile for themselves. As this term is no longer used by us, as far as I'm concerned, they may have it.

On a lighter note: a friend of mine always quips that he is shocked to hear that our Church has women Bishops. After all, he says, we always commemorate "the First Hierarch of the Russian Church: a broad!" We are not amused.

Fr David Straut

The original ROCOR/ROCA was also known as ROCOR-L (ROCOR-Laurus) for a period, as a means of dsitinguishing it from

ROCOR-V (ROCOR-Vitaly), aka ROCiE/ROCE - (Russian Orthodox Church in Exile), which has also been known to use ROCA

and ROCiE-A (ROCiE - Anthony) - formed a couple years back by dissenters from ROCOR-V

and ROCiE-A/D (ROCiE - Anthony/Damascene) - a split from ROCiE-A

and ROCiE-V/A (ROCiE - Vladimir/Anastasi) - which, I think, is or claims to be the current remnant of the original ROCOR-V

and RTOC (Russian True Orthodox Church) - also dissenters from ROCOR-V

and, not to be forgotten, ROAC (Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church) - which schismed from the original ROCOR body about a decade ago

I know I missed someone out there.

Many years,

Neil

eeeeeeek

My mind has just cried "enough"

For the benefit of our ROCOR members and, especially, the good Fathers Ambrose and David, please don't think I tossed that list out there to cast aspersions on or ridicule ROCOR. Most of our Churches have suffered from such divisions at one time or another.

It's just that the naming techniques (or, more accurately, the penchant for maintaining acronymic similarity) in these instances (even more so than with the myriad Ukrainian jurisdictions) make it imperative to have a program guide at hand, lest any of them be mistaken for one another by those new to the topic.

Many years,

Neil

I knew of the splinters but didn't count them as they are not ROCOR.

But Neil makes a good point in that at least one of them uses the name.

A lot of this splitting from ROCOR was understandable but not theologically justifiable: after what they went through in the 1930s and 1940s, many 80-year-old Russian exiles, the core/founding members of ROCOR in America, are still afraid of the Russian government and its relationship with the church in Russia. The schisms were part genuine fear among the followers and part power grabs by the people who started them.

ROCiE was the late Metropolitan Vitaly, senile in his 90s, being told by his caretakers he was still the head of ROCOR. It got some members from ROCOR's base (see above) but I thought a lot of them went back and this church was either dead or tiny. I didn't know it had further splintered but am not surprised. The nature of the beast: once you start splitting you can't stop!

ROAC was a case of ROCOR setting up shop in Russia which came back to bite them. (You could have called it ROCORIR, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia in Russia.) Metropolitan Valentin used to be a real Orthodox bishop, a Moscow Patriarchate priest who became a ROCOR bishop in Russia. Then as ROCOR realised Communism was really over and the church in Russia was OK, it backed off of that but Valentin, out of real fear of the Coms or opportunism I don't know, went his own way, again hoping to scare up some support in America from ROCOR's base. I just assumed this petered out. Last I heard it was a real church but microscopic with a couple of American parishes.

I thought the RTOC was another ex-ROCOR bishop in the ex-USSR (in Ruthenia?), Agafangel, who said nyet to union with Moscow then disobeyed a transfer order from ROCOR.

(There may well be people in Russia really afraid of the quasi-state church because of its past collaboration with the Coms. Only God can judge them. We haven't walked in their shoes.)

To throw another curve in the road, several parishes since the reunion of ROCOR with the MP have opted for communion with the Holy Metropolis of the GOC. http://www.stjamesok.org/

Diak,

I must confess my ignorance, but when I first saw "GOC," I was wondering why the Greek Orthodox Church would have accepted them.

When I clicked on your link it became clear--Greek Old Calendarists.

WOW! What a can of worms I opened with what I thought was a simple question!

S

Does anyone know if Our Lady of Kazan church in Newark, NJ went over to the Greek resistance synod? I hear a rumor on a web site which featured some photos of the church but have no way of confirming it?

All I know is the old rector, Fr Vladimir Shishkoff, had gone to ROAC.