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#32175 02/10/04 10:26 PM
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Here is an even more comprehensive article on the UGCC Patriarchate, Moscow, Rome, etc., from L'Espresso's Sandro Magister:
http://213.92.16.98/ESW_articolo/0,2393,42051,00.html

Plenty of links to other recent articles, including Patriarch LUBOMYR's interview in "30 Days."

Slava Ukraini.

Woody

#32176 02/10/04 11:27 PM
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I especially noticed the second paragraph of the article Woody has provided:

Quote
The Vatican has already made known to Alexei II that it does not for now intend to proceed with the constitution of the Greek-Catholic patriarchate of Kiev.
It appears Kasper and Maj are running our Church, not our own hierarchy.

On the bright side, they did include the wonderful quote of Fr. Taft - "to **** with Moscow". The UGCC, like the KP, should be outside of Moscow's ecclesiastical concerns since both are "excommunicated" according to Moscow.

#32177 02/11/04 09:58 AM
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Dear Diak,

Be careful of your language, Sir!

People here have been canonically penanced for the use of such!

When you are teaching at the Eastern Pontifical College in Rome, like Father Taft, and are no longer on this forum, THEN you can use direct language like that! smile smile

The moral of this story is that when it comes to the Ukrainian Church, Cardinal Kasper is no "friendly host . . ."

O.K., I'll get back to preparing for my religion classes next month . . . smile

And I"ll do so whether or not djs approves of my theology on Original Sin! smile

Alex

#32178 02/11/04 11:35 AM
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I especially like our Patriarch's interview.

http://www.30giorni.it/us/articolo.asp?id=2174

HE'S DA MAN!!! Don

#32179 02/11/04 01:23 PM
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I thank my brother and friend Don for posting this article.

But read it carefully. This article is one reason why if we took three steps forward with Patriarch Josyp, we have taken at least two back. And it is again confirmation that our hierarchy is comfortable waiting on Rome hand and foot to determine our future and identity.

First point, which is minor, they introduce His Beatitude Lubomyr as "Cardinal". Which he is, but that is definitely to the writer more important of a title than "Major Archbishop" or "Patriarch".

Secondly, I feel His Beatitude Lubomyr makes a fatal error by separating the issue of the Sobor in Kyiv with the establishment of the Patriarchate. It is precisely the physical manifestation of the restoration of the See of Kyiv and the erection of the Patriarchate. I won't say anything about the architecture, however... :rolleyes:

Thirdly, and perhaps most telling, he calls himself "senior Archbishop". This may be a problem in translation from Italian of Major Archbishop, but again it is clear he is NOT referring to himself as Patriarch.

Fourthly, and perhaps most disconcerting, he is obviously comfortable just moving to Kyiv as "senior Archbishop" and waiting on Rome to decide the right time for all of this to occur.

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The two things are not connected. I will go to Kyiv [Kiev in Ukranian, ed], even if I am still a �senior Archbishop�, according to Ecclesiastic terminology, whether our Patriarchate is recognized or not, either today, tomorrow or in ten years time.
By his own admission he is most definitely not the Patriarch. His Beatitude Lubomyr is a kind man, patient and courteous, no doubt, to a fault.

Quote
But in the Catholic Church we have another possibility, sanctioned also by the Codes of Canon Law, and which unfortunately the Orthodox don�t have. The institution of new Patriarchates can also be ratified by the Pope.
It's not a possibility, it's a requirement. No new Patriarchates without erection by the Holy See. Again, instead of acting out our Orthodox identity we wait hand and foot begging at the feet of the Vatican.

I hope when the doors are opened the first time for the Sobor, it will be for the restoration of the Patriarchate, but alas that will almost certainly not be the case. Would that we had the lion roaring in the desert, Patriarch Josyp, to take a bold lead at this point.

#32180 02/11/04 01:39 PM
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Dear Diak,

An excellent analysis - one that I think, if I may say so, you would not have made a year ago (?)

Very good indeed!

Alex


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