www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L

Alexis,

Don't forget that it is a well-established Roman custom to applaud the Bishop of Rome when he enters and leaves a church. The people even applaud the Pope's coffin, as happened during the funeral of Pope John Paul II.

That said, I agree Pope Benedict XVI received a VERY enthusiastic welcome both at Regina Pacis Centre and at St George's Cathedral

Yes, and the English part of me says: applause doesn't belong in liturgical celebrations!! LOL.

Alexis

It's not unusual for Antiochian Orthodox to serve on Greek-Catholic parish councils - for that matter, it's not unusual in the Middle East to find Eucharistic sharing between Catholics and Orthodox - the Antiochians in the USA are decidedly uncomfortable with this.

Fr. Serge

Well for good reason I would think, Reverend Father!

Alexis

Earlier, someone mentioned the "Minor Eastern Patriarchs", I think this is a mistranslation of what was intended to be said. The Oriental Churches are called "Lesser or Minor Eastern Churches", to differentiate between the "Greater or Major Eastern Churches" of the Byzantine Rites. This is not to degrade them, but to recognize their place in history. The "Greater Churches" were imperial, while the "Lesser" ones were the countryside and native churches -- we see the differences and similarities to this day (iconostas v. veil, etc)

Actually, it is simpler than this and it is not all Oriental Catholic Churches or Patriarchs that are so styled. The Major Eastern Patriarchs are those whose Patriarchal Sees are deemed to have been established by Apostles.

The sole Patriarchates denoted as Minor are those of the Armenians and the Chaldeans. The others - Alexandria of the Copts, Antioch of the Melkites, Antioch of the Maronites, and Antioch of the Syriacs - are deemed Major.

Many years,

Neil

Yes Neil you are right, the major see in that region are Jerusalem and Antioch. The other Patriarchates that are styled of other places in the region are designated minor, as they came about later on.

Canonically there is no distinction between "major" and "minor" Eastern Churches or patriarchates. The terms may have been used by historians in the past, especially to distinguish between Chalcedonian and non-Chalcedonian Eastern Churches, but I don't think the terms "major" and "minor" are very useful or provide any greater insight into the history of these Churches. Indeed, today I think distinguishing between "major" and "minor" patriarchates is rather unfortunate, and in fact inaccurate, because, as I have said, canonically there is no such distinction in the Catholic Church.

THE VIDEO OF THE CELEBRATION (complete):

http://www.ktotv.com/cms/videos/fiche_video.html?idV=00044903&vl=video_preferees

Resumés:



http://blog.cancaonova.com/terrasanta/2009/05/09/celebracao-das-vesperas/

But what about photos, anyone hasn't any until now? I've just found these two: http://www.melkite.org/Patriarch/PA12.htm

Those people are going NUTS at the beginning. You'd think the Beatles were in town.

Alexis

Actually, that was calm for the Middle East. I was expecting lots of ululation!

Fr. Serge

thanks for posting the links

The French presenter seems to be much better informed than the one at EWTN. He recognized Patriarch Gregory III, despite the fact that his Beatitude's address obviously wasn't included in the original program...

Dear Friends:

Looking at the service, it seems that the Pope and his people were completely out of the loop.

I can't say for sure but I think that the Patriarch of Antioch decided to show up at the last moment and then threw a little wrench into their neet arrangements.

The Pope and his masters of ceremony occasionally looked at their books for guidance and seemed lost at times.

If this is the case Pope Benedict may have only intended to preside at the service and not actively participate.

But non-the-less someone should familiarize His Holiness with the basic forms of Byzantine liturgical practice.

How hard would that be?

JL.

JL,

Well, although in a perfect world the Pope would be fairly familiar with "Byzantine liturgical practice," I'm sure that's pretty far down on his list of things to do.

He is the visible Head of one-fifth of humanity, you know. He has a pretty busy schedule~

Alexis