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Believe me Teen--Greek Catholics have tacky, polyester vestments as well, in imitation of the Latins of course!

Now, now - it's perfectly easy to purchase tacky polyester vestments from shops on Ayias Philotheis Street in Athens!

Incognitus

Oh no doubt Incognitus--I'm not saying that only Greek Catholics have them ;-) It's just that we have A LOT of them.

I do know that we have our share of lace albs--they were very popular in my parish at least in the 40s and 50s.

We have a local church that an approved (by the Cardinal) Tridentine Liturgy.

I would prefer to be able to go to older Latin services, with some minor exceptions- specifically, the Good Friday prayers in the old formulation contained some things that were not necessarily "well formulated" or charitable sounding for prayers. For example, if we are to pray for our separated Christian brethren, I would rather not pray for them as "heretics and schismatics." That's not very charitable. The new formulations are better in that regard because they are not "backhanded" prayers. Better to pray for the unity of all in Christ. Much better. No name calling.

Nevertheless, to me, part of what made Roman Catholicism unique was its very tangible connection through the ages and to its origins. Latin gave it a universality. The old Mass, which was really gone by the time I came along, would seem to give a continuity to the faith that seems lacking in modern formulations of the Mass and with modern Protestant sounding hymnals. I could picture some relevance to that famous painting of St. Peter baptizing a Centurian - could feel some spiritual connection to that.

Growing up, I felt more connection to Orthodox ritual simply because I could visualize that concept of continuity, of the communion of saints, that somehow is driven from my consciousness by that most hated banjo music and ghastly felt banners. Religion is solemnity to me. It is mystery and beauty. It is a glimpse of the heavenly, the otherworldly. It is not banjos and felt. If heaven is full of banjos and felt banners, well, I guess I don't wanna go there! ;-)

But there would not be so many kinds of Christian rituals between different churches if there were not differences of opinion as to how to "best" worship, I suppose. I'm sure there are banjo and felt banner devotees out there, after all.

There are a lot of things that came out of Vatican II and its councilar documents that I think were quite good. But that got lost in the rush to "liberalize" or "modernize" ritual and by the "experts" who ran in to tell you what this or that meant TO THEM. It seems a lot of confusion came out of a sincere attempt on the part of the hierarchy to engage people more in the Mass and the spiritual life of the church.

Annie,

I agreed with all of your post, except about calling heretics and schismatics "heretics and schismatics."

The Fathers of the Church certainly didn't feel uncharitable when they rightly called certain people or peoples heretics or schismatics. Their prayers certain mention heretics and schismatics. They don't back away from showing the reality of things. If the Church Fathers didn't find such words uncharitable, why should we?

Logos Teen

Because the Church Fathers of today do not refer to them as such. Have you read the documents on Ecumenism from Vatican II? Go ahead and call the Orthodox "schismatics" and set back all the work that Pope John Paul II did and Pope Benedict is doing now, 500 years.

Annie, you are so right! I am sure that you know that Pope John XXIII of blessed memory had that terrible prayer against the Jews struck out of the Good Friday Liturgy and when one priest started to say this prayer in his presence, The Pope immediately stopped and told him to say it over in the "new" way. In the same way, those prayers against Orthodox and Protestants were rightly taken out of the Liturgy. As an Orthodox, I do feel quite uncomfortable with some of our Good Friday Liturgy when it comes to anti-Semitism.

I would like to see the Old Latin Liturgy return. I attend it sometimes and would like to attend more often.

John,

"Set back?" Set back what? Are we in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches? Does the Moscow Patriarchate refuse to meet with the Pope? Did the Greeks verbally assault the Holy Father during his trip there a few years back?

Have we really come so far? Ah, yes, the lifting of anathemas between Athenagoras and Paul VI. The Balamand Statement. Cliche references used to back up a fabricated worldview, IMHO.

It saddens me, but I cannot honestly say that I think much progress has been made in the past 500 years when it comes to concrete results.

Anyway, I'm really not interested in arguing about that since it's pointless.

To All,

I keep reading new reports every day about these whisperings and rumors concerning Pope Benedict's "expected" granting of the universal indult for the Traditional Mass. Most people seem to think it will come during the Synod of Bishops' meeting this October. Should be interesting.

Logos Teen