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2 Hello...I'd like to know if there are any iolate Third Order Carmelites (Ancient Observance) who get the feeling the Order is trying to "ease us out"
I am intensly interested in the "Jesus Prayer" and ultimately the "Prayer of the Heart". It has been almost impossible for me to get any kind of help or direction. It seems isolates don't draw much interest unless one can find 8 or 10 others who want to join. Being RC I thought the dis-calced might be the answer because they claim to be more faithful to the origional "Rule of Saint Albert". One would think they would be more understanding of Eastern prayer but that appears not to be the case.
If you have a point I would like to hear from you. Be patient as I have been on jury duty lately and my hours are not regular.
Pray without ceasing...Mike :p

Dear Brother in Mt Carmel,

Certainly, it is very difficult to be an isolated Third Order Carmelite.

I once tried to organize a Byzantine Third Order Carmel - but that didn't work out.

Ultimately, the original Greek Hermits of Mt Carmel lived an eremitical life without reference to external rules or organization - save for ancient monastic practice based on a kind of Antonian model.

We may live the spirit of Mt Carmel (or of St Benedict) today, alone, or with some others, and need not worry about official recognition from anyone.

Alex

Interested in the JESUS PRAYER? I highly recommend "The Way of a Pilgrim and the Pilgrim Continues His Way" when I reached the end of this wonderful book I exclaimed, "This can't be the end! I don't want this book to end!"

Third order groups don't seem as plentiful as in years past. I have often wondered if it's because fewer people are in the monastic orders, and there is a corresponding lack of spiritual direction for the third orders. A lady tried to start a third order Dominican group here some years ago. With the nearest Dominicans miles away, the group floundered around for awhile, then failed. But that doesn't keep you from observing whatever rule you choose. If you want to live in the spirit of Carmel, then prayers for you and I wish you every success.

I appreciate the thoughtful comments (I have sent private emails) and suggestions. I am in total agreement with all of you. As I said, I don't mind my isolate status (in fact, my last few emails from the Order remind me of why I decided upon isolate status in the first place) but I can't officially participate in the Formation of other souls who feel a call to Carmel. I am SO glad all this red tape and bean counting wasn't in vogue when the first blessed Christian hermits answered their to Mt. Carmel.
Pray without ceasing...Mike

Dear Mike,

As you know, the image of Our Lady of Mt Carmel that is in the Naples Cathedral (Our Lady of Naples or "La Bruna") is, in fact, a beautiful, Byzantine icon of the Mother of God, Patroness of Mt Carmel.

Old paintings of the original Carmelites show them wearing brown and white striped robes - something that was a source of derision when they came to Western Catholic countries.

In addition, I understand that what prompted St Simon Stock's prayer to our Lady was the issue of the other REligious Orders in England wishing to banish the Carmelite Hermits on the grounds that they "belonged to the Eastern Church" and so were outside their ecclesial jurisdiction . . .

My own interpretation of his vision is that he saw our Lady holding Her Mantle of Protection (that figures prominently in the East) and the scapular came to symbolize that.

Alex

Thank you! You are exactly right. The striped robes had to be changed to white when the holy hermits went to Europe. I just don't understand why the Provincials of both branches of the Order find it so difficult to admit our roots (Carmelites) are in the East and what a benefit Eastern spirituality would be. But I guess I shouldn't be surprise. I forget we are in the "Me - Me" generation instead of the "Thee - Me".
Pray without ceasing...Mike

You might want to contact our Carmelite Sisters in Sugarloaf, PA.

Thanks. Are they RC? Do you have an email address or phone?

Also, according to what the Order is telling me only the Provincial or the Provincial Delegate can give permission for me to even instruct others in the charisms of the Order. This dispite the fact that the new Rule specifically states that isolate Tertiary status is still acceptable.
Pray without ceasing...Mike

Dear Mike,

Welcome to the Forum!

I'm so glad there are Carmelites on this Forum. There is a Third Order Discalced Carmelite group in my parish. One of the members is an iconographer. Another is my youngest daughter's godmother.

I can feel the spirituality of Mt Carmel in your posts. I will pray for you.

Paul

Thank you Paul. Thirty years and counting. You know, at one point I actually contacted the Provincial Delegate of the area I live in about changing from T.O. Carm to OCDS. I suppose I sent five or six emails. One was answered, and the answer was that my request would be passed on. That was a few months ago. The new Rule specifically allows isolates in both branches of the Order. I will repeat the email I sent to both OCDS and T.O. Carm, "This will be my last transmission. It has become obvious to me after all these years that neither branch of the Order takes an interest in isolates or anyone who can't provide a dozen souls. I now know beyond doubt that the only help I'll receive from a Carmelite source is from Our Lady of Mt. Carmel herself. I certainly won't be getting any from you. Goodbye and God bless." Now that I think about it the email subject should have been "Burning your bridges".
Thanks for your prayers. I can use all I can get.
Pray without ceasing...Mike

Dear Mike,

So why don't you start building up a Byzantine Carmel right here?

Getting people who are interested in the Eastern roots of Mt Carmel to pray together as isolates, but not so isolated if we can communicate with one another through this forum?

You can be the "Archimandrite" and I would like to join!

You could draw up some general religious practices that reflect Eastern spirituality.

I've written an Akathist to Our Lady of Mt Carmel that is listed here as well.

We also have Fr. Elias who IS a Byzantine Carmelite and moderates here. Perhaps he could be a kind of internet spiritual Father to us?

What say you?

What say all of you who might be interested?

Here is the Akathist to Our Lady of Mt Carmel I wrote:

https://www.byzcath.org/sites/alex/web/Akathist-Our-Lady-Mount-Carmel.pdf

Alex

Dear Alex,
You know...I really like that idea. It might also show that souls with a devotion to Our Lady of Mt. Carmel and mystical prayer can ignore some artificial borders and restrictions perpetuated by persons with a personal interest in maintaining the status quo. I tried to access the Akathist you wrote but so far I get an error message. I will keep trying, though. If we could actually get Fr. Elias as a moderate, I think that would be the answer to a prayer. I would love to be a part of a Byzantine Carmel here. I certainly would like to have some input (actually I wrote the guidlines they used for the British Provinces in the "70s) but I'm not certain I would qualify as "Archimandrite". But your idea is excellent on several levels.
Pray without ceasing...Mike

Dear Alex...I downloaded your Akathist. I can only say that I am stunned! You have greatly honored Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. I can only pray that you DO receive a double share for your work of love. Anyone who loves Our Lady of Mt. Carmel as much as your writing shows has my friendship and respect. Thank you for all Carmelites.
Pray without ceasing...Mike