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If "Eastern Rite" means all of the Eastern Catholic Churches, then things have deteriorated still further, linguistically speaking. Whatever else about "Eastern Rite", it is clearly in the singular form, but the Christian East includes a plurality of liturgical traditions.

Using a single form to designate plural phenomena is not a satisfactory way of seeking to dispel confusion!

Fr. Serge

May I suggest that we use the word "rite" to describe a liturgical action or a liturgical tradition, for example the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults or the Byzantine Slavonic rite.

But when we talk about Churches, let us call them by name: the Eastern Catholic Churches (plural), the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches (plural), the Russian Orthodox Church, etc.

Fr Archmandrite Serge, for example, is a priest of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. Therefore he serves the liturgy according to the liturgical rites and traditions of that church.

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church and all the other Eastern Catholic Churches are not "rites"; they are Churches which follow their own liturgical rites and traditions.

The Latin Church too is not a "rite" but a Church; indeed there are many liturgical rites in use in the Latin Church: Roman, Ambrosian, Carthusian, Mozarabic, etc, some connected to places and some connected to religious orders.

To reduce a church to just a "rite" is to deny its existence.

This is because a church is more than just a liturgical rite. It is also a synod, dioceses/eparchies, parishes, a body of canon law, a theological tradition, a monastic tradition, and much else besides.

To take a counter example: the Carthusians, Dominicans, and other religious orders have or used to have their own liturgical rites, but that did not make them churches.

So we need to separate between Churches on the one hand and liturgical rites on the other hand.

Thanks! That is a great explanation in detail to explain the topic. There is so much to learn and I have to say it isn't fun. Somedays I feel like I know a great deal. Then there are other days that I feel as if I know very little. Much of which seems to depend on to whom I am speaking with. I am finding a wealth of knowledge here and I have to say I may make many more mistakes along the way so please be patient with me. I didn't know Fr Serge is from the UGCC. Why I thought he was Orthodox I have no idea. Is there a listing of where I might find such info? He will not be able to answer my other posting from the view point that I was in search of. Maybe someone else will step up and answer. I will try the Orthodox contact that I have that is not affiliated with this site.

If you wish to know about a poster's affiliation - click on their name and go to their Profile.

Fr Archimandrite Serge's states that he is Greek Catholic

Thank you! I see that now. I submitted my profile as being Catholic. Greek Catholic may or may not mean Ukrainian Greek Catholic? I am so lost. There is so much to learn.

"Greek Catholic" is a term used as a synonym for "Byzantine Rite Catholic Church in Union with Rome" of which there are 14 churches sui iuris (self governing), of which the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the largest.

The term Rite is defined in canon law, and refers to a shared tradition and patrimony, and using the same liturgical forms. Currently, they are Roman, Byzantine, Armenian, Chaldean, Syrian Coptic. Arguably, the Gaulican and Ge'ez are separate rites from their respective parent Roman and Coptic Rites.

The term Greek Catholic is derived from "Greek Rite Catholic", a reference to the Greek church using the Byzantine Rite.

The major Byzantine Rite Churches:
UGCC
Ruthenian [Greek-]Catholic Church
Melkite Church
Romanian Catholic Church
Italo-Albanian Greek Catholic Church

There are 9 others, as well. The Italo-albanians are major not because of size nor leadership, but because of their history of remaining in union from before the great schism.

The other rites have fewer churches; the Armenian Rite comprises the Armenian Catholic Church and the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church... one in union, one not.

The Roman Church uses the term Rite for it's various liturgical usages out of tradition; really they fall in the category of sub-rites, since they all share the same patrimony and traditions; they differ in liturgical forms only mildly. They don't meet the canon law definition of Rite. (Nor does RICA, for that matter, but that is a different meaning of the term...)

"Why I thought he was Orthodox I have no idea."

Nonetheless, Father Serge will be both pleased and flattered. We are, after all, Orthodox Christians in communion with the Church of Rome.

Thank you, dear brothers. In case you are wondering, I call myself simply "Greek-Catholic" because my ethnic-national identity is Irish, and while "Irish Greek-Catholic" would be accurate it would also add to the confusion.

CMore-keep plugging away. Like many such things, the deeper you go, the more interesting it becomes.

Fr. Serge

I always think of you as Patriarch Pro Tempore of the Hiberno-Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.

How about "Metropolitan of Luna City, Exarch of the Moon, Patriarch of the Planets and the Spaces Between"?

Fr. Serge

You're only titular of Luna City, that place having been torn down and reduce to another faceless housing development some years ago.

Oh, dear - 'twas ever thus. How about Metropolitan of Marsopolis?

Fr. Serge

Coptic is a Church, not a Rite; Alexandrian is the Rite - which is why Ge'ez is not a Rite, despite continued use of the term by the Ethiopians.

Many years,

Neil

Ge'ez is the name of a language.

Fr. Serge

Of course. I would agree to that, if we were talking about a cultural event or something like that, not exactly an act of worship, but something that might be appropriate to do in the church.

However, a prayer service is, by definition, an act of worship. As long as we are talking about Christian prayer, I do not see an issue in doing so in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.

Shalom,
Memo