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Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin writes in the Irish Times (source [irishtimes.com]):

Quote
Monday, May 25, 2009

Tarnished orders have a last chance at redemption

ARCHBISHOP DIARMUID MARTIN
OPINION: Those responsible for decades of abuse must act to restore credibility and help the survivors

WHERE DOES the church go from here? The church has failed people. The church has failed children. There is no denying that. This can only be regretted and it must be regretted. Yet “sorry” can be an easy word to say. When it has to be said so often, then “sorry” is no longer enough.

But “sorry” must always be the first word.

The Ryan report shocked me. But it did not totally surprise me. I was ordained 40 years ago today and at my ordination and that of a friend we had a group of former residents of industrial schools: people of our own age, great people and friends of ours.

As students we had worked in a hostel in Dublin for former residents of industrial schools, especially Artane. Later I worked in a centre in London for ex-prisoners, a large proportion of whom included generations of Irish industrial school residents. The stories they told then were not radically different from what the Ryan report presents, albeit in a systemic and objective way which reveals the horror in its integrity.

Sadly, the Ryan report came so late.

Anyone who had contact with ex-residents of Irish industrial schools at that time knew that what those schools were offering was, to put it mildly, poor-quality childcare by the standards of the time. The information was there.

A chaplain to Artane had put much of it writing. A few courageous and isolated journalists like Michael Viney spoke out. When the first efforts were made to reform Artane, it was patently evident that the only change possible was to close it down.

Someone wrote to me this week about an entirely different matter and said: “there is always a price to pay for not responding”. The church will have to pay that price in terms of its credibility.

The first thing the church has to do is to move out of any mode of denial. That was the position for far too long and it is still there.

Yes, there was abuse in other quarters. Yes, childcare policy in Ireland at the time was totally inadequate. But the church presented itself as different to others and as better than others and as more moral than others. Its record should have shown that and it did not. Ryan reveals church institutions where children were placed in the care of people with practically no morals.

Where the church is involved in social care it should be in the vanguard. That is different to a situation in which the church proclaims that it is in the vanguard. In industrial schools the church, with good intentions, became involved in a Victorian model of childcare and became more Victorian than the Victorians, and when Victorianism was shown to be wrong, those responsible did not have the foresight to recognise that and children were exposed to pathological Victorianism.

There is a sense of shock among many good priests and religious at what has happened. But that sense of shock should not slip into a situation in which they feel themselves almost as the victims. No one in the church must ever try to water down or reformulate the suffering of survivors. Let the survivors speak and tell their stories as they experienced them.

What do I say to the religious orders who have been identified as being responsible for what happened? Let me speak to them directly: I think that you have to ask and truly try to answer the question which Ryan has put to you: “What happened that you drifted so far away from your own charism?”

I believe that you owe it to your good members to try to answer that question thoroughly, honestly and in a transparent way. Your credibility and the credibility and survival of your charism depend on the honesty with which you go about that soul searching. This may be a painful task, but it is unavoidable if it is to be possible for your charism to survive. People are angry and disillusioned.

What was lost was more than just a charism. Somehow along the way the most essential dimension of the life of the followers of Jesus Christ got lost by many. The Christian message is a message of love. What the Ryan commission recounts is sadly so very far removed from that. In Jesus’s eyes the poor deserve the best and they did not receive it here.

Even where you have recognised what was wrong, the Ryan report must have brought home to you the extent of what went wrong in a manner which perhaps you were not able to imagine in the past. The facts are now clear and you have to take notice and make some new gesture of recognition.

An agreement was made with government seven years ago. The fact that the mechanisms of fulfilling your side of that agreement have not yet been brought to completion is stunning. There may have been legal difficulties, but they are really a poor excuse after so many years.

Whatever happens with regards to renegotiating that agreement, you cannot just leave things as they are. There are many ways in which substantial financial investment in supporting survivors and their families can be brought about, perhaps in creative ways which would once again redeem your own charism as educators of the poor. In many ways it is your last chance to render honour to charismatic founders and to so many good members of your congregations who feel tarnished.

Sadly, in a very short time another report on the sexual abuse of children will be published, this time about how such abuse was managed in the Archdiocese of Dublin of which I am archbishop. It will not be easy reading. The steps that have been taken to put in place good child safeguarding norms will never wipe away the sufferings of those who were abused. Let the truth, however, come out.

I am sorry for the Arch Bishop but I have said it once and I will say it again. The offending orders must be shut down. They have covered their heinous crimes up and still are trying to cover their collective rear ends. If the church wishes to regain it's moral authority amongst the people it is going to have to do much more to regain the trust of people.

Einar

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Originally Posted by Converted Viking
I am sorry for the Arch Bishop but I have said it once and I will say it again. The offending orders must be shut down. They have covered their heinous crimes up and still are trying to cover their collective rear ends. If the church wishes to regain it's moral authority amongst the people it is going to have to do much more to regain the trust of people.

Einar
I tend to agree. The best way forward is to dissolve the order and sell off the holdings. If there is a remnant of faithful I'd provide for them enough material resources to start over again in a new community, one that has a radical faithfulness to Christ and His Commandments.

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Do you realize that in 2006 the Annuario Pontificio recorded 1435 members of the Christian Brothers, in 303 communities? I don't know how many schools they run, but it must be a large number. Are you sure that many of these Brothers are violent and abusive?

So, while the Christian Brothers and others definitely need to recognize the crimes of their members, admit responsibility for trying to cover them up, apologize, and pay compensation, I don't know whether it would be morally right or even possible to dissolve the congregations. After all, what would happen to the schools they are currently running, and the children who are being educated there?

I don't advocate leniency or cover-ups, but I'm questioning the wisdom and even the moral justice of closing down entire congregations of religious, provided they own up to their faults as Archbishop Diarmuid Martin says they should.

There may be hope. For example, this is part of what the Edmund Rice Christian Brothers in North America have to say about their attitude to the protection of minors and vulnerable adults:

Quote
The Mission of the Edmund Rice Christian Brothers North America

The Edmund Rice Christian Brothers North America have accepted the call to evangelize youth within the mission of the Catholic Church, and we complete this work primarily in schools where the Members minister. In these and in parish, health care, counseling and other ministries we follow the example of our Founder, Blessed Edmund Rice, who attended to the needs of the vulnerable and nurtured the dignity of the human person. Sexual abuse of minors is abhorrent to Blessed Edmund's example, to our vocation as Christian Brothers, and to the Gospel values we profess. We Christian Brothers share in the anger and anguish expressed by many Catholics and many in our society over the abuse committed by priests, religious brothers and religious sisters. We are committed to the prevention of any recurrence of abusive acts. Furthermore, we attempt to reach out to victims with care for their healing and hope to rebuild the trust that has been lost. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated. We will do all in our power to prevent abuse. [...]

Source
Ethics in Ministry Policy for Posit...rothers and Minors and Vulnerable Adults [ercbna.org]


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PS! Damian Thompson (of "Holy Smoke" [blogs.telegraph.co.uk] fame) has some interesting comments on his blog: "The latest child abuse scandal is as Irish as it is Catholic" [blogs.telegraph.co.uk].

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Basically, the Christian Brothers (but others too) have two fundamental problems. They can be formulated as two pairs of questions and answers:

Q1. If I were the father of young children, would I want to send them to a Christian Brothers school?
A1. No.

Q2. If I thought I had a religious vocation involving teaching, would I want to join the Christian Brothers?
A2. No.

If enough people feel like this, then the Christian Brothers have no future.

For them to have a future, they need a major reform. Otherwise they might as well just close down.

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Latin Catholic:

I understand what you are saying here. However I still believe they should be shut down. As for the schools and other institutions they run, another group will have to take them over. An example must be made of the order. As has been suggested on this forum, those who are not guilty can go to other orders or perhaps start a new order with assistance from the powers that be. The Christian Brothers are still trying to stone wall and cover up. That alone is enough reason in my book to shut them down. Look this is not rocket science. As long as they try to conceal the facts and continue to cover the perps backsides they are not repentant in any shape or form.

As for the statement they have made, it doesn't mean much to me. When they turn over the names then I will have a little more confidence that they are sincere.

You speak of the moral justice of shutting down a congregation, what about the justice to those who have been abused by these evil people?

In Christ:
Einar


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I am talking about moral justice in the sense that we should always avoid harming the innocent. Therefore, we need to think about the consequences of a possible shut-down. Who might inadvertently be hurt? For example, might poor children today be deprived of an education because we are only thinking about the past?

What I am trying to say is that this is a seriously difficult question and I honestly don't know the best answer. Perhaps there could be a reform or a refoundation, so that the "good" members of the Christian Brothers could somehow carry on in the best tradition of Blessed Edmund Rice? But, as I said, I don't know.

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It has just struck me that the Christian Brothers scandal and the Marcial Maciel scandal are direct opposites:

The Christian Brothers have a good and inspiring founder, but the members have betrayed his legacy. The Legion of Christ has a depraved and immoral founder, but most of the members seem to be good people.

What to do when our Christian ideals are betrayed by those who have a public obligation to uphold them?


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That is why I said the institutions they run should be taken over by another order so the poor children won't be left out in the cold. This is not just thinking about the past, this is looking forward and realizing we don't want these people around the kids.

As for the "good" Christian brothers, let them go to other orders when they are in fact determined to be clean.

In Christ:
Einar

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Christ is Risen!!

I'd have to say that this order definitely needs to be disbanded. As far as finding "good" members, if the report is correct that novices were brought into these schools and allowed to "practice" on the children, I'd have to say that this sort of thing is part of the group culture--a deep seated thing that is like a cancer that goes to the core of the order's culture. How anyone could be termed "good" in this situation--where you've even had one experience of learning how to inflict as much pain as possible on children is beyond me. This has to be termed truly evil: something bad cloaked as being good.

Furthermore, if Rome had knowledge of this decades ago, there needs to be more than an order in Ireland disbanded. There needs to be a high-level investigation on high to determine why this sort of thing was not stopped long ago by the highest Church authority.

In Christ,

BOB

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Originally Posted by theophan
Christ is Risen!!

I'd have to say that this order definitely needs to be disbanded. As far as finding "good" members, if the report is correct that novices were brought into these schools and allowed to "practice" on the children, I'd have to say that this sort of thing is part of the group culture--a deep seated thing that is like a cancer that goes to the core of the order's culture. How anyone could be termed "good" in this situation--where you've even had one experience of learning how to inflict as much pain as possible on children is beyond me. This has to be termed truly evil: something bad cloaked as being good.

Furthermore, if Rome had knowledge of this decades ago, there needs to be more than an order in Ireland disbanded. There needs to be a high-level investigation on high to determine why this sort of thing was not stopped long ago by the highest Church authority.

In Christ,

BOB

Amen !!

In Christ:
Einar

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Chrsit is Risen!!

Forgive me for one more thought.

In my youth, my mentor told me I would be judged by the company I keep and that I should, therefore, be very careful with whom I spent my time and befriended.

Should the same not be said of one entering a religious order or any group?

On the other hand, might it also be said that the moral health of any group can be measured by the way in which it moves to root out evil or correct the behavior of its members who stray from core principles?

In Christ,

BOB

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As is the case with many religious orders that are committed to teaching or child care, it is highly likely that many among the Christian Brothers of Ireland came to the order after being pupils in its schools. Regretably, as is well-documented, 'abuse begets abuse' and those who have suffered it often become abusers themselves once in a position to exercise power over others - whether it be as a parent or any other authority figure.

The prospect that this type of circumstance has contributed significantly to perpetuation of an institutional culture leads me to believe, as I have since reading the report, that the institution cannot be expected to cure itself. The communal entity, the environment, the mentality, needs to be dispersed. While one cannot be assured that those who either secretly harbor a taste for this sadistic behavior, or are caught up in a predilection toward it because of their own history, will - upon being separated from the order - not repeat these horrors in another venue, one can only hope and pray that they will not be able to find one in which doing so is acceptable or tolerated.

To break the cycle, one has to eliminate the opportunity for its repetition. Dissolution of the orders involved is one clear means to achieve that.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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In looking through some Irish sites, to get a feel for reactions to these events, I came across this interesting piece:

Boys Town Founder, Father Flanagan Warned Irish Church About Abuse [irishcentral.com]

"he said the Christian Brothers, founded by Edmund Rice, had lost its way."

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Neil,

That was a very interesting link. Thanks for posting it. I hadn't heard about Fr Flanagan and Boys Town. It's an inspiring story which shows what can be achieved against the odds.

The story of Fr Flanagan and the way his highly critical comments were dismissed by both Church and State in Ireland, also show the kind of climate that prevailed there at the time.

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