www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Onetime Greek Catholic parishes becoming Orthodox

I moved to Pittsburgh in 2003, and was immediately struck by the great number of both Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches here. Anyway, after talking to a few Greek Catholic priests and laypeople, I heard that a good chunk of the Orthodox parishes in the greater Pittsburgh area were, at one time, Greek Catholic. In fact, I have heard that the church I frequently assist at -- Saint John Chrysostom in Greenfield -- began life as a Greek Catholic parish, became Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox, then reverted.

Does anybody have any numbers for how many parishes departed the communion of Rome for Orthodoxy in the early 20th century here in Western PA? Or how many parishes split, with half remaining Greek Catholic and the other half becoming Orthodox? (And can anyone confirm that St. John Chrysostom became Orthodox and then reverted?)

Tom:

Christ is in our midst!!

Are you referring to a parish with this question?

If you're referring to the saint himself, I find it more than a bit odd. St. John lived so much earlier than the Great Schism that he is a saint of the undivided period of the Church. How could he "become Orthodox and then revert"? Revert to what???? Pagan????

In Christ,

BOB

Tom: Western Pennsylvania is the Galapagos Islands of eccelesial lifeform diversity.

I had never heard that St. John's in the Rus'ka Dolina section of Pittsburgh was Orthodox for a time. The parish did have a very strong and vocal church committee in the 1950s, so a brief association with Orthodoxy might have been possible. I understand that the parish will celebrate its centennial next year (2010) It might be helpful for someone, perhaps you Tom, to do a thorough history of the parish. I collect Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic parish histories, which are unfortunately all packed away as we get ready to move to Western PA.
Off the top of my head--there are no doubt more--, here are some Western PA partishes which began as Greek Catholic and switched to Orthodoxy:
St. Nicholas Duquesne
St. John The Baptist Black Lick
St. Nicholas New Castle
St. Mary's McKees Rocks
SS. Peter and Paul's Carnegie
St. John The Baptist East Pittsbrgh
St. John The Baptist Ambridge
St. Michael's Rankin
St. John's in Lyndora, was Orthodox for about nine years, before becoming GC again. Byzantine Catholic Churches in Erie, Hermitage, Donora, Clymer, Hawk Run, Monessen, Charleroi, Canonsburg, Homestead-Munhall, Mckeesport, Johnstown, Latrobe, and Windber also experienced splits who produced Carpatho-Russian Orthodox or OCA parishes. (I am sure I have left out many!)

St.John the Baptist Cathedral in Mayfield,PA was a Greek Catholic Parish when founded in 1891.It switched by 1902.I don't have the details readily available.My wife and sons attended the Centennial Celebration in 1991.It was one of 2 parishes which left the OCA for ROCOR in 1982 over the calender change.

St. John's in the Rus'ka Dolina (Rusyn Valley) of P-Burgh was a hotbed of anti-celibacy activism in the 1930s, but I don't believe it ever adopted Orthodoxy, even briefly.

It remained in union when a number of parishes across the country joined together to form what is now the American Carpatho-Russian Diocese, during the second major wave of Rusyn Greek Catholic parishes becoming Orthodox.

The Carpatho-Russian diocese whose center is in Johnstown was founded, believe it or not, in Saint John Chrysostom Church, Rus'ka Dolyna - Greenfield, Pittsburgh.

When Bishop Nicholas Elko required the parish to accept the New Calendar, the parishioners (it was the sole remaining parish of the Pittsburgh diocese retaining the traditional calendar) took the matter to court, seeking either to prevent the bishop from imposing the calendar innovation, or to gain the permission of the court to take their parish elsewhere on the basis that it was an independent parish which happened to be served by the Pittsburgh Diocese. One of the arguments put forth in the effort to support the independent claim was the name of the parish - Saint John Chrysostom is equally acceptable to Orthodox and Catholics. It was not difficult for the lawyers on the side of the parishioners to submit a list of names of parishes of the Pittsburgh diocese which had names that definitely were not acceptable to the Orthodox.

The litigation eventually reached the US Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the Pittsburgh diocese.

Fr. Serge

Here is a link to the history of the American Carpatho-Russian Diocese formally recognized in 1938 (it moved to Johnstown in 1950):

http://www.acrod.org/about2.html

Nicholas T. Elko became bishop on March 6, 1955, he had been apostolic administrator in December 1954:

http://www.archeparchy.org/page/history/bishop-Elko.htm

What names would those have been? St. Pius X, Infant of Prague, and Sacred Heart are the only three I can think of and Infant of Prague wasn't so named until 1970.

The ruling was helped in no small part by pulling up the carpet to reveal the Papal coat of arms in the terrazzo floor. So much for independent.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Though I am fairly new to the scene, didn't a lot of parishes become Orthodox, or a lot of members became Orthodox, as a result of the married clergy of the EC being sent back to their native countries. Maybe that is what they were referring too. Not that it is a 'recent' happening.

that schism (over married clerics) was closer to the turn of the century, about 1905-1917.

Dear Father Deacon,

I think there's a "Saint Theresa's" around somewhere. But best to check the entire list and see what turns up.

It's bizarre, but the Papal coat of arms (which Pope?) in the terrazzo floor, especially if covered by carpeting, doesn't necessarily prove that a parish was not independent.

If that sounds crazy, here are a few more: there's a Polish National Catholic Church dedicated to Saint Josaphat, another one dedicated to the Immaculate Conception, and I've been told, whether truly or falsely, that there is also one dedicated to "Our Lady of Purgatory"!

Back to Our People, Saint John's in Perth Amboy was originally dedicated as "the United Greek Catholic Church of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary" - they succeeded in prying the Church away from Pittsburgh with a long, hard court fight.

There's a provision in the founding documents of Saint Michael's in Binghamton to the effect that it could never belong to the "schismatic Russian Orthodox Church", but could belong to the Roman Catholic Church. This has meant that for many years, and possibly even now, every time the parish sent any money to the diocese, the parish lawyer would write the letter which accompanied the donation.

And on, and on.

Fr. Serge

Actually Aramis, there's an earlier movement to Orthodoxy (schism is not what Orthodox believers would call it), which resulted in the modern OCA. It affected both Ukrainians and Rusyns, who then were not differentiated organizationally.

It's covered here:

http://www.cin.org/clash.html

While celibacy played a role in that, it was really about much more. The celibacy crisis of the 1930 followed 1929's cum data fuerit decree by the Vatican.

You can find details here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ov...i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

--tim

To put it another way, there was never a time that St. John Chrysostom was not Orthodox or a member of the undivided church.

There is a St. Therese in Florida and four Our Lady of Perpetual Helps (don't know if that would be unacceptable) but I think these were all founded after the court case as well.

As for the PNCC no Immaculate Conception or Our Lady of Purgatory, but they do have Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Mt Carmel, Holy Mother of Sorrows, and Holy Mother of the Rosary.

BOB,


Yes. I was speaking of St. John Chrysostom in the Run, which is a little valley in the Greenfield section of Pittsburgh. I had heard that it left the communion of Rome for the communion of Constantinople at one point, then later reverted. No one else below seems to have heard that, though, so I'm inclined to believe that I was told this in error.