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I am certain that the Particular Law for the Pittsburgh Metropolia forbides female altar servers in accordance with Orthodox teaching and practice. The other Eastern Churches may have their own standards in this area. When Deaconesses were ordained in the Byzantine Churches, they continued to receive the Holy Mysteries from the hands of the Bishop or priest at the Holy Table within the altar after this had ceased to be the practice for the laity. Whether the Bishops restore the Order of Deaconess, which was never canonically supressed is up to them and the Holy Spirit. (Not in that order)
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The papal decree that bars women from presbyteral ordination has been bandied about as blocking deaconesses. There is an outside chance that Rome wouldn't balk if they were liturgically functioning in a manner akin to subdeacons, but Rome's been pretty adamant that women can not hold any sacerdotal ordination, and are invalid matter for same.
This has been cited repeatedly in the denunciations of the calls by various "women's rights" groups.
The Orthodox renewal of the use of Deaconesses has not been universal enough for the ECC's to be able to justify them in the Catholic church.
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The Orthodox renewal of the use of Deaconesses has not been universal enough for the ECC's to be able to justify them in the Catholic church. It isn't the universality of the Orthodox Church's practice that decides whether it is proper for a particular Eastern Catholic Church to restore it's practice - the standard is authenticity of a particular Church's Sacred Tradition. That alone is justification enough.
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Michael:
the question is the authenticity of the role of the deaconess, whether she was in major or minor orders, or a class unique, and without the orthodox praxis as guide, and the Orthodox restoration of the Order of Deaconess being post-reunification, Catholic scholarship has literally dismissed the Deaconess as an aberration and without need, and probably without Holy Orders, not even minor orders.
I myself would support a reinstitution of the Order in accord with the Apostolic Constitutions, or even a more generous version....
But the loudest and most visible arguments for the Order of the Deaconess to be recognized by Rome are mostly from radicals who wish presbyteral ordination for women, and see it as a female deacon. (Which said, Greek praxis as described seems to hold to the same conclusion.)
If the order of the deaconess were in use Orthodox-wide, it would be a good way towards proving the authenticity of that particular role, especially given the notoriety of Orthodox intolerance of liturgical innovation (aside from the WRO).
The Councils speak of Deaconesses as if clerics; *I* am convinced. But in the case of the ECC's, Rome must also be convinced, not just the particular church wishing them as ordained ministers, even minor ordinations.
Further evidence against the ordination of Deaconesses is the Coptic Orthodox use... as installed extraliturgical ministers.
So while Orthodox use isn't deciding, it's a very powerful key, for the renewal and delatinization commends the ECC's to match Orthodox praxis.
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It is not clear whether deaconesses in the West were fully ordained or were considered at best a minor order. It does seem clear that they had very different stature and roles than in the East, and this is a matter of the internal usage of each Church. Deaconesses in the East were fully ordained, were considered major clergy, received the Eucharist at the altar with the deacons. The Order of Deaconesses was never abolished, and there seem to have been deaconesses in small numbers from the 14th century down to our time. If the Christian East should fully restore the order (by ordaining significant numbers of women), the Latin Church would have no option but to respect that decision. If the Latin Church does not, the Eastern Churches have no option but to respect that decision as well. Neither Church can legislate in this instance for the other.
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Stuart: it's not directly on point, but read point 7 of http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/b...en-xvi_spe_20060302_roman-clergy_en.html : 7. Hearing of a mother and some women Religious who have helped priests through a crisis prompts me to ask: why should not women also have a hand in governing the Church? Women often function charismatically, with prayer, or on a practical level, like St Catherine of Siena who obtained the Popes' return to Rome. It would be right to promote the role of women in institutions too, since their viewpoint, which is different from that of men, could help priests in decision-making.
I now reply to the parochial vicar of St Jerome's - I see that he is still very young - who tells us how much women do in the Church and for priests themselves.
I can stress that in the First Canon, the Roman Canon, the special prayer for priests: "Nobis quoque peccatoribus", always makes a deep impression on me. Here, in this realistic humility of priests, precisely as sinners, we pray to the Lord to help us to be his servants. In this prayer for the priest, precisely only in this prayer, seven women appear who surround the priest. They show themselves to be the believing women who help us on our way. Each one of us has certainly had this experience.
Thus, the Church has a great debt of gratitude to women. And you have correctly emphasized that at a charismatic level, women do so much, I would dare to say, for the government of the Church, starting with women Religious, with the Sisters of the great Fathers of the Church such as St Ambrose, to the great women of the Middle Ages - St Hildegard, St Catherine of Siena, then St Teresa of Avila - and lastly, Mother Teresa. I would say that this charismatic sector is undoubtedly distinguished by the ministerial sector in the strict sense of the term, but it is a true and deep participation in the government of the Church.
How could we imagine the government of the Church without this contribution, which sometimes becomes very visible, such as when St Hildegard criticized the Bishops or when St Bridget offered recommendations and St Catherine of Siena obtained the return of the Popes to Rome? It has always been a crucial factor without which the Church cannot survive.
However, you rightly say: we also want to see women more visibly in the government of the Church. We can say that the issue is this: the priestly ministry of the Lord, as we know, is reserved to men, since the priestly ministry is government in the deep sense, which, in short, means it is the Sacrament [of Orders] that governs the Church.
This is the crucial point. It is not the man who does something, but the priest governs, faithful to his mission, in the sense that it is the Sacrament, that is, through the Sacrament it is Christ himself who governs, both through the Eucharist and in the other Sacraments, and thus Christ always presides.
However, it is right to ask whether in ministerial service - despite the fact that here Sacrament and charism are the two ways in which the Church fulfils herself - it might be possible to make more room, to give more offices of responsibility to women. Bolding original. Also, it is NOT clear that the Deaconesses were ministerially equivalent to Deacons in the East; if it were, there would be no ban on female clerics.
Last edited by aramis; 06/10/09 07:39 AM.
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Sticking to the topic. There are no instituted/ordained Acolytes in the Catholic Church (east and west). However some Eastern Catholic Churches who are still heavily Latinised have followed the Latin lead and have females serving. I have seen Syrian rite female servers in the USA. Sadly the occasion I was at, the server's footwear would be more appropriate in a night club and not the Holy Place as she clicked her way around while serving the soon to be new Syrian Patriarch, who was the bishop who had permitted this.
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Also, it is NOT clear that the Deaconesses were ministerially equivalent to Deacons in the East; if it were, there would be no ban on female clerics.
Though the deaconess did not have a liturgical role outside of the baptism of female catechumens, it is important to remember that the liturgical role of the deacon evolved slowly over time, and that the primary ministry of the deacon is diakonia, or service. In that area, the deacon and the deaconess were equals, looking after the spiritual and material needs of the faithful, as well administering the various institutions maintained by the Church.
Saint Olympias, friend and confidante of John Chrysostom, was Protodeaconess of Hagia Sophia, with oversight of more than 400 deaconesses throughout Constantinople. She was a woman with considerable power and influence within the Church, and that she did not have a liturgical role identical to that of the deacon cannot take away from that. It is the sacrament, not the duties, which define an ordained minister. St. Olympias and her sister deaconesses, were ordained by Cheirotoneia, in a rite identical to that for deacons. This is a true major ordination, which confers upon the recipient the divine grace and gift of the Holy Spirit in equal measure to that conferred upon a deacon. This gift is then used in the manner determined by the Church.
Finally, the term cleric does not simply refer to ordained ministers; it covers all those under orders, including religious, so nuns and monks, even if laymen, are also "clerics". Terminological sloppiness has a tendency to muddy the waters.
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Rome's been pretty adamant that women can not hold any sacerdotal ordination, and are invalid matter for same. Correct. Rome has also been pretty adamant to say that Deacons are not ordained for the priesthood, but for service. Therefore, whatever Rome has said about priestly ordinations does not automatically apply to the Diaconate. Shalom, Memo
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Pavel: There are instituted Acolytes in the Roman Church. 7 were instituted last fall in Anchorage. 6 were ordained deacons last month. That leaves one still an instituted acolyte. The Ruthenian Particular Law (which you can find in the resources section of ByzCath) permits the ordination of men to the minor orders of Lector, Cantor, Acolyte, and Subdeacon. CLERICS
Canon 327
§1. Men who are properly prepared can be ordained to the offices of acolyte, lector cantor and subdeacon, who are minor clerics.
§2. Minor clerics will be governed by proper statute issued by competent authority.
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There is an error in my last posting. The line should have read that there are no women instituted/ordained as Acolytes in the Catholic Church, is how the line should have read.
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It has always puzzled me as to why the Latin Church felt the need to let girls serve at all. Were they having problems filling the ranks from the available boys? If so, perhaps investigating the reasons would have been better than engaging in false egalitarianism. Heavens, no. Growing up, there were two Saturday evening and four Sunday morning Masses. We served about twice a month, with an average of probably six boys. I was finishing just as girls were being allowed in other parishes. There was no shortage of boys. hawk
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"Finally, the term cleric does not simply refer to ordained ministers; it covers all those under orders, including religious, so nuns and monks, even if laymen, are also 'clerics'. Terminological sloppiness has a tendency to muddy the waters."
This is not correct at least according to the Roman Code of Canon Law (which is all I can speak of with confidence). The current law of the Western Church, at least, defines clerics as men in Holy Orders who have not been reduced to the lay state. Religious who are not in Holy Orders are laymen.
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Yes that is correct. Clerics are only Bishops, Priests and Deacons under the current RC Canon Law and no one else. 
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However, RC canon law is irrelevant in a discussion of the historical meaning of the word "cleric" and its use not only in Church documents, but also in common law. The Latin Church can feel free to change the meaning of words at will, but that does not change the historical reality behind the words themselves. St. Thomas Beckett would be surprised, no doubt, to hear that only bishops, priests and deacons are clerics, considering that he went to his death largely because of his determination to retain jurisdiction over clerics accused of criminal offenses--mainly, it would seem, monks, nuns and those in minor orders. "Benefit of clergy", in common law, extended to monks, nuns and those in minor orders (and, eventually, anyone who could read Latin). Legal and social benefits extended to clerics covered monks, nuns and those in minor orders. Rome itself insisted, for hundreds of years, that clerics included monks, nuns and those in minor orders.
One day Rome wakes up and decides that only deacons, presbyters and bishops are clerics? Sorry, I don't think that cuts the mustard. Too much Alice in Wonderland about it: "When I use a word, it means precisely what I intend it to mean". No wonder the decrees of the Holy See are frequently opaque beyond the comprehension of mortal man.
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