The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Frank O, BC LV, returningtoaxum, Jennifer B, geodude
6,176 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (KostaC), 314 guests, and 105 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,524
Posts417,636
Members6,176
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#325414 06/22/09 11:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
E
Junior Member
Junior Member
E Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Hey everyone, I am sorta new to the boards here...I am 23 years old and I am getting married next year..I live in Western, Pa, and my family is very big in our church, my uncle used to be a mitred archpriest....well i have a situation...my fiance is protestant, and i am Eastern Rite.....when we met with our priest, he told us all the things we can do in our wedding...My fiance is VERY sad that her father can't walk her down the aisle, and that no music can play as she walks down....I would rather get married in my church than in hers, so do you think if i ask the priest to make 2 exceptions he would, since after all she is letting us get married in my church??

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 458
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 458
Erik,

What parish do you attend in Butler? I attend St. John the Baptist in Lyndora?

I think the best thing that you can do is to talk to your fiancee. Explain to her why these things are unable to happen. It is possible for her father to bring her into the Church for the Betrothal (if you are doing it at the time of the marriage). That is the proper time because the betrothal joins the couple in this journey to married life. From the back of the Church the two of you walk in together, freely heading into married life together.

Just my thoughts, it's not a game of concessions. We have rubrics and traditions proper to our liturgies that carry significant value. I doubt the venerable priest would allow any such variations.

Peace,
Ed

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
As a mom, and former Protestant, she may not understand right now but she will later.

#1 it is not her father her brings her to you. It is Christ bringing you two to the wedding feast. Both parents bring her to the wedding table in that they will come right behind you.

#2 the music is the beautiful chants of the wedding feast. No, it is not instruments as man makes, but instruments that only God can make. The voice of the readers is given back to God.

St. Elias has several good articles on crowning. By the way has she ever witnessed a crowning? I would suggest you take her to one.

What happened to"Here Comes the Bride"?

In the Byzantine Tradition, there is no "Bride walking down the aisle on the arms of her father" ritual. Instead the Priest, who has already joined them at the Betrothal (in the Narthex of the Temple), lead the Bride and Groom in procession from the Narthex (symbolic of the World fallen under sin since Adam) into the Sanctuary of the Temple (symbolic of the World redeemed by the Christ) - the Procession demonstrating that the marriage transcends mere a human contractual relationship (as fundamental as that may be) to become an instance of theosis and opportunity to participate in the life of the Holy Trinity.

The "Giving away of the Bride" ritual practiced in some non-Orthodox churches comes from the ancient Germanic marital ritual of conveyancing. This ritual is based on the concept that women were the property of men. As a "maiden", she "belonged" to her father. At marriage, her husband contracted with her father to have the bride "given" to him - presumably in return for some sort of dowry or bride price.

What happened to the Vows?

Vows are not part of the original Byzantine Marital Order. In some Churches, marriage vows have been lately included into the liturgical books - but only on an optional basis. But this optional insertion and innovation is the result of a relatively recent interpolation of post-mediaeval Latin Scholastic theology into the authentic Sacred Byzantine Tradition.

Marriage Vows come from the idea that marriage is a contract, made by the Bride and the Groom. In the Byzantine theology of marriage or "CROWNING" as well call it, the wedding and marriage is a much more profound matter than mere human contract - no matter how solemn - but transcend and transfigure human relation into a Mystical Sacrament, a fundamental divinizing dynamic in human life, a participation in the Divine Life of the Triadic One true God.

Naturally, the consent of the couple is necessary to marriage, just as the consent of any creature with Free Will is necessary to enter into relationship with God. This consent is given at the beginning of the Service before the actual Crowning Service proper.

When the Couple is lead by the Priest from the Narthex into the Sanctuary, this symbolises that the human and natural institute of marriage is being transfigured into a Holy Sacrament, a mystical participation in the divinizing life of the Trinity.

Can I have Sid Vicious sing a Solo at the Wedding?

The traditional psalms and chants prescribed in the Order of Crowning are beautiful, edifying, and ancient. More importantly, they are established therein to both praise God as well as catechise the Bride and Groom (i.e. teach them how their marriage now participates in the Divine Life of the Triune God) and evangelise the congregation (proclaim the Gospel of Salvation to all persons).

In the Order of Crowning, the Bride and Groom are entering into a profoundly salvific and mystical relationship of love with God through one's relationship of love and mutual commitment to each other. Thus the Service of Crowning is not only a celebration of 2 individuals, rather this celebration of the love of 2 Christians divinized by God's love, is now also a prayer, a liturgy, public worship of the entire Christian Communion, and a Sacrament of the Holy Church.

Signficantly meaningful songs of the couple and their favourite string quartets indeed add a very special dimension to one's wedding celebration, but these are more appropriately performed during the reception or banquet etc.
http://www.saintelias.com/ca/mysteries/faq.php

The Order of Betrothal

The Betrothal Service is properly celebrated at the Betrothal of the Couple. In these latter days, it is often celebrated as only the first part of the Byzantine Wedding Service.

We recall the Infancy Narrative as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew (1:18):

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph..."

Historico-Biblical note: In Hebrew the term for "betrothal" is "Qiddushin", meaning sanctification - meaning the persons have been dedicated before God to each other for this Sacred and Holy Sacrament. While Betrothal is not the fullness of marriage (the couple still live separate and apart), it does create a binding ontological relationship, and thus is greated than a mere engagement. With the marriage (in Hebrew, "Nishuin" meaning "elevation"), the couple join together to establish a community of life.

The couple to be betrothed with their attendants assemble in the Narthex of the Temple.

The Clergy go out to meet them.

The Priest signs them with the Cross (three times).

The Two Prayers of Betrothal

Eternal God. You gather the Separate into One, and make the bond of love unbreakable. You blessed Isaac and Rebecca and marked them as heirs of your Promise. Bless also these servants of yours and guide them in good works of every kind....

You betrothed the Church, a pure virgin called from among the nations: Bless this betrothal. Join together these servants of yours and keep them in peace and concord...

The Granting of the Rings

Rings are symbols of God's everlasting love and unending commitment to us. It is from this Divine Love that the love of the Couple arises and is sustained. Their pledge of eternal commitment is made possible by the sure and certain eternal and absolute commitment of God to them and to us all.

The Priest blesses each with the other's Ring by tracing over them the sign of the Holy and Life-Creating Cross.

"The Servant of God (NN) is betrothed to the Servant of God (NN) in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

The Rings are venerated and placed on the finger of the Bride and Groom.

Blessing at the Putting on of the Rings

"LORD our God, you accompanied the servant of the patriarch Abraham when he was sent to Mesopotamia to choose a wife for his lord, Isaac. By means of a sign, the drawing of water from a well, you showed him that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless this betrothal of your servants and make the Word they have spoken a reality....

"Sustain them with the Holy Union that comes from you, for you make male and female from the beginning and you are the One who matches a wife to her husband...

"And so, LORD our God, who extended your faithfulness to your inheritance...your Chosen Ones in every generation, look with kindness upon your servants and make good their pledge in trust, concern, fidelity, and love...

By a ring, power was given to Joseph in Egypt;
By a ring, Daniel was exalted in the land of Babylon;
By a ring, Tamar's innocence was proven;
By a ring, our heavenly Father showed compassion for his (prodigal) son...

"Your own right hand, LORD, armed Moses in the Red Sea. And just as your faithful Word established the heavens and made the earths foundations firm, so too will your mighty Word and your uplifted arm bless the right hands of your servants....

"O Master, with a blessing from heaven bless now this putting on of rings. And may your Angel go before your servants all the days of their life...
The Order of Crowning
(The Wedding Ceremony)

In the Byzantine Tradition, Weddings are to take place on Sundays. There are elaborate folk customs, especially for the women that take place in and around the various Church services, whereby the bride is prepared for the Order of Crowning.

Blessing of the Parents:

While it is not technically a part of the wedding ceremony, the Blessing of the Parents prior to the Wedding is a custom that is piously followed by many Ukrainian faithful.

After the Bride and Groom have received a blessing from their parents, there proceed to the Narthex of the Temple.

There, there are met by the Clergy.

The Priest signs them with the Cross (thrice).

(The Betrothal - if not yet taken place)

If the Betrothal has not yet taken place at an earlier date, the Wedding Service begins with the Rite of Betrothal.

The Bride and Groom with their attendants proceed to the Narthex of the Temple.

There they are greeting by the Presbyter and the Deacon together with the Deacons and Servers.

For a description of the Rite of Betrothal, including the Betrothal Prayers and the Granting of the Rings and its accompanying Prayer cf.

Lord our God, you betrothed the Church... Bless this Betrothal. Join together these servants of yours and keep them in peace and concord

Then the Clergy lead the Couple (accompanied by their attendants) in Process into the Sanctuary of the Temple.

During the Procession into the Temple, Psalm 127 is chanted. During the singing of Psalm 127, the Faithful respond:
"Glory to You, our God, glory to You!”

The Clergy lead Bride and Groom from the Narthex (symbolising the World fallen from the sin of Adam) into the Sanctuary (symbolising the world redeemed by Christ Jesus).

This symbolizes that their Marriage is so much more than merely a contractual relationship entered into by woman and man. In the Orthodox and Byzantine Tradition, mere natural union of man and woman - as beautiful and fundamental as that may be, is now transfigured into participation in the life of the Holy Trinity.

By the mercies of God working through this Holy Mystery, the marriage becomes a Holy and Salvific Sacrament - a Saving and Life-creating Divine Visitation wherein husband and wife are not only recepients and partakers of divinisation, but are also a locus of the Messiah's theanthropic theosis in the world.

Hence the essence of the Wedding in the Orthodox Tradition are not the vows. Indeed the authentic Byzantine Service of Crowning has no vows! Neither are the ministers of the sacrament the Bride and Groom. The Priest is the minister of the sacrament, who by his blessing (the rite of Crowning) confer the life-creating Sacrament upon the blessed couple.

The Declaration of Consent

The Couple are asked whether they have a good and honest desire and a firm intention to take each other as wife and husband.

They are asked whether they have promised themselves to other parties.

If they have answered that they do have the requesite desire and intention and have solemnly declared that they have not promised themselves to other for marriage, then the Clergy proceed with the Order of Crowning.

The Presbyter presents the Bride and Groom with lighted Candles (reminiscent of Pascha and Baptism).

The lighted Candles indicate that Husband and Wife-to-be are to become part of the Light of Christ, He who enlightens all the World.
The Great Litany for Crowning

The Priest begins: Blessed be the Kingdom of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…

This declares that what is about to take place both Sacramentally ushers the parties into the Kingdom of God and the Grace bestowed emanates from the Kingdom of God, thus rendering them citizens, members, subjects, and partakers of the Kingdom of God.

The Church prays:

....for the servants of God now being joined to each other in the Communion of Marriage and for their salvation,

...that these Crowns may be blessed by the power, indwelling, and energy of the Holy Spirit,

...that this marriage be blessed as was that in Cana of Galilee,

...that they may be given perfect love, peace, and mutual support, and shine as living examples of Christian life,

The First Prayer of Crowning

"Most Holy Master, accept the prayer we your servants make because you went to Cana. Bless this marriage, having come here also, with your Invisible Presence, and give these your servants a peaceful life, length of days, chastity, love for one another in a bond of peace, long-lived descendants, gratitude for their children and an unfading Crown of glory

"Let them see their children's children, keep their bed unassailed, give them of the dew of the heavens above and of the fertility of the earth. Fill their house with grain, wine, and oil, yea, with every good thing, so that they in turn may share with those in need. At the same time, grant to those present here with them every request helpful toward salvation..."

The Second Prayer of Crowning

"Now, O Master, LORD our God, send down your heavenly grace upon these servants of yours, and grant that they may live their life according to your will...

Bless them LORD our God, as you blessed:

Abraham and Sarah
Isaac and Rebecca
Joseph and Asenath
Moses and Zipporah
Joachim and Anna
Zachary and Elizabeth

Preserve them, LORD our God, as you preserved:
Noah in the Ark
Jonah in the Fish's Belly
The Three Holy Youths from the Fire
when you showered on them Dew from Heaven

Remember them, LORD our God,
as you remembered your Forty Holy Martyrs
when you sent them Crowns from heaven

Remember, LORD our God
the parents who nurtured them for the prayers of parents give firm roots to founding families
your servants, the bridal attendants
and all who have gathered here for this Rejoicing
your servant NN and your servant NN, and Bless them!

And give them oneness of soul and body. Let them stand as tall as the cedars of Lebanon...
And after they have pleased you, may they like the stars of heaven, shine in you, O Lord...

The Third Prayer of Crowning

Holy God, in your majesty you saw fit that the man should not be alone upon the earth. And now O Master, unite this servant of yours NN and this servant of yours NN for your are the One who match a wife to her husband. Unite them in one accord, weave them into one flesh...

At this point, the Presbyter will bind the right hands of Bride and Groom together - using the Wedding "Rushnyk", the special woven and embroidered cloth
The Crowning

The Priest blesses each with the Crown in the form of the Cross. The Couple venerate their Crown with a kiss. Then the Priest crowns them with Crowns.

The servant of God NN is crowned for the servant of God NN: in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

The servant of God NN is crowned for the servant of God NN: in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Finally, using the Marital Crowns, the Priest will bless Bride and Groom with the threefold blessing: "LORD our God, crown them with glory and honour!", exchanging the Crowns between husband and wife threefold in an elaborate and beautiful ritual. And thus the Bride and Groom are married.

The most ancient tradition uses natural wreaths as crowns. In Greece, branches from the Stephanos (Crown) plant is used. In Ukraine, the Myrtle plant is used. After Great Vespers (the evening before the wedding), the women attendants of the Bride gather to together weave the Crown of the Bride.

In latter days, often metal crowns have been used. Though in the contemporary context, the natural wreath Crowns are becoming once more de rigeur.

The Crowning symbolises a sharing in the Kingship of Christ, the same share which martyrs have by their heroic and total witnessing to His Love and Resurrection.

The Epistle of James (1:12) declares, " Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the Crown of Life that God has promised to those who love him."

Likewise, St. Paul in his Second letter to Timothy (4:8) speaks of the Crown of Righteousness to be awarded to all who long for the theophany of the Lord, " Now there is in store for me the Crown of Righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day –and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."

The Crowning indicates that the marriage is much more than a mere civil union. The couple are Crowned in the Kingdom, Crowned for the Kingdom, Crowned with the Crown of the Messiah God - the Lord Jesus himself. Thereby the Holy and Sacred Mystery of Marriage becomes an Divine Encounter bearing the Presence of the Incarnate God - Immanuel in our world, as shall be sung of in the Irmos later on. The vocation of marriage is a participation in the Self-Sacrificing and Life-Creating Love, Passion, and Resurrection of the Christ.

The Prophet Isaiah (28:5) prophesies that in the Day of the Lord, "the LORD Almighty will be a glorious Crown, a beautiful wreath for the remnant of his people." Likewise the wisdom of the book of Proverbs (12:4a) has it that "a wife of noble character is her husband's crown". Finally St. Peter in his First Catholic Epistle (5:4) states that, "when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the Crown of Glory that will never fade away" - clearly demonstrating the eschatogical nature of the the Holy Mystery of Marriage and the Sacramental significance of the Crowning.
The Liturgy of the Word

The Prokimen

You have placed on their heads
crowns of precious stones.

They have asked you to give them life and you did so!

Yea, you will give them everlasting blessings

You will gladden them with the joy of your Presence.

The Apostle Reading

Eph. 5:20 - 33

"Give thanks to God the Father always and for everything in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Give way to one another out of reverence for Christ..."

Gospel Reading

John 2:1-11

"...Jesus worked this first of his Signs at Cana in Galilee. Thus did he reveal his glory and his disciples believed in him."
Prayers and Supplications
The Insistant Litany

The Faithful pray for the married couple:

- that the Christ our God, who shared the life of an earthly home in Nazareth and worked the first of his signs at Cana in Galilee, might abide in their home, aid them in ministering to others as He himself ministered to others. And mark them as living signs of his own saving love...

- Let us also pray that they find joy and satisfaction in all their endeavours and that the temptations of earthly glory never blind them, but rather, that their earnest desire always be the riches awaiting them in the life to come...

And another Prayer:

"LORD our God, in your Plan of Salvation you saw fit to prove marriage honourable by going to Cana in Galilee. You have consented to join together your servants; now keep them in peace and concord. Prove their marriage honourable, preserved their bed undefiled. Let their life together remain without blemish and find them worthy of reaching a fruitful old age as, with a pure heart, they do whatever you command..."

The Litany of Supplication with the Lord's Prayer and concluded by the Prayer of Inclination

"Bow your heads to the Lord...

"O God, with your strength you created everything. You placed the universe upon a firm foundation and beautified the Crowns of all who have been Created by you. So also, bless with a spiritual blessing these your servants who have been Crowned in the Communion of Marriage..."

The Common Cup

In the Primitive Church, before the development of the Christian Order of Crowning, marriages were accepted into the community by the newly wedded wife and husband, publically receiving Communion together.

Thus originally the Common Cup was the Eucharistic Potir whence the newly Crowned wife and husband partook of the Presanctified Holy Gifts.

In the present day, the Couple drink together Blessed Wine from the Common Cup - much as Jewish Tradition, where couples who are married under the "khuppah" bless wine and drink from the common cup.

The Procession

With the following Irmos and Tropars

Dance Isaiah!

A virgin has conceived and will bear a Son, Emmanuel - who is God and man.

His Name is "Orient".

When we extol HIm, we call that virgin blessed!

O Holy Martyrs.

You fought well and have received your Crowns.

On our behalf entreat the Lord to have mercy on our souls.

Glory to You, O Christ our God, the Apostle's boast, the martyrs joy.
They whose preaching was the Trinity, One in Being!

The Priest, whose Epitrakhil wraps the Marital Rushyk binding the right hands of the newly married couple, leads them in a Holy Procession around the Marriage Table - holding aloft the Holy Cross.

This symbolises the journey of their life together (both earthly and eternal), now forever united with each other and following the Cross of the Christ and revolving around the Holy Gospel Book.

The Removal of the Crowns

Be exalted lkke Abraham,
blessed like Isaac,
and multiplied like Jacob,
walking in peace
and righteously doing God's commendants.

Be exalted like Sarah,
gladdened like Rebecca,
and multiplied like Rachel,
being happy with your husband
and keepig the precepts of the law...

Prayer:

God our God, You went to Cana in Galilee and blessed the marriage there. Bless too these servants of yours, now joined together by your providence in the Communion of Marriage.

Bless their comings and their goings

Receive their Crowns in your Kingdom

Keeping them without spot or stain or reproach for ages of ages,

Amen.

Final Blessing

May the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
the all-holy Trinity,
One in Being,
the Source of Life,
one Godhead and one Kingship,
bless you and give you long life...
success in life and Faith...

Dismissal

Ukrainian Wedding Hymn

O Lord bless our family
our loved ones far and near;
the elders, the children
the Couple standing here;
May peace, love, and laughter,
be ours forever after
O Lord for this we pray,
on this wedding day.

http://www.saintelias.com/ca/mysteries/crowning.php
http://www.saintelias.com/ca/mysteries/reflection.php

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 1
E
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
E Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 1
Erik,

This is a good example of where traditions collide--big time.

On the one hand, deviating from the traditional practice of an Eastern Church--even a little bit--can be seen as calling into question the very reason for that Church's continued presence outside its traditional boundaries.

On the other hand, however, when a bride-to-be is VERY sad about certain details of HER wedding being dictated contrary to her preference, it's clear that some kind of compromise is necessary. A wedding is, after all, the bride's special day, and she's probably been looking forward to it since she was four or five years old.

One compromise I would suggest is that if there are any Eastern Catholic parishes in the area that has a really professional-sounding choir, you may be able to hire them for the wedding (chances are they've done it before!). Good choral singing is at least on par with any organ or ensemble, and there's lots of elaborate choral music that's been written for a capella use in Byzantine-rite Churches (they'll probably be able to suggest something). If you can work that out, then maybe your priest will consider bending the rules about the bride's father walking her down the aisle.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
E
Junior Member
Junior Member
E Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
i attend st johns in lyndora as well....i used to be the alter server under father john, father dennis, my mom is a dano...i graduated college so i dont serve anymore, but yea we have abbot leo now...

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
"On the other hand, however, when a bride-to-be is VERY sad about certain details of HER wedding being dictated contrary to her preference, it's clear that some kind of compromise is necessary."

So? Wait until it comes time to bury her husband. Won't she be disappointed that there is no eulogy? That she can't play his favorite song? No compromise is necessary at all. The wedding is not about her.

I've seen first hand the abominations that arise when rituals are mixed, and that was just Roman Catholic and Byzantine Catholic.

By the way, does the bride know the reasoning behind having her father walk her down the aisle? What does she know of the ancient Roman (as in pagan Rome) law of manus? Does she realize that the march down the aisle, inherited from Roman secular law, represents the transfer of legal authority over her person from the paterfamilias (her Daddy) to her husband? That, in fact, it reduces her person to property transferred from the authority of one adult male to another? How does that make her feel?

One of the interesting things about the Byzantine Crowning in Marriage is its acceptance of the full ontological equality of the husband and wife before Christ and before the Church. She stands there as a free person, entering freely into a sacramental union with her husband, through the descent and power of the Holy Spirit working through the priest. She's not some inferior being handed over from one man to another, as though incapable of making adult decisions.

Finally, if she so desires, she can have her father present at her side during the betrothal rite, which is often rolled up into the Crowning, but can still be done as a separate ceremony in the narthex of the church. And betrothals are still binding.

Last edited by StuartK; 06/22/09 01:14 PM.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 709
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 709
Originally Posted by Epiphanius
A wedding is, after all, the bride's special day

As a former bride wink , may I scream now?

No! It is NOT the bride's special day. That's the mindset that creates Bridezillas and weddings that cost more than the downpayment on a first home.

It is the COMMUNITY's special day, for celebrating the love of two people brought together in Christ.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Axios, Penthaetria!

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 33
ajk Offline
Member
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 33
Originally Posted by Pani Rose
...
What happened to the Vows?

Vows are not part of the original Byzantine Marital Order. In some Churches, marriage vows have been lately included into the liturgical books - but only on an optional basis. But this optional insertion and innovation is the result of a relatively recent interpolation of post-mediaeval Latin Scholastic theology into the authentic Sacred Byzantine Tradition...

The so called "vows" ARE in the Ruthenian Recension ceremony and there, in the Ruthenian Trebnik, for situations where they have been in use link. As declarations by the bride and groom, in this day and age, I think they are very appropriate.

Authentic traditions can grow and adapt. Go back far enough and the crowning was not part of the marriage ritual either. A previous thread, link, has already gone over some of the misinformation that appears is about to be introduced again.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,351
Likes: 99
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,351
Likes: 99
Quote
since after all she is letting us get married in my church??


ErikJ:

Christ is in our midst!!

You've got a serious issue here if this is any kind of stance in your relationship. The wedding is not "the bride's day," as our culture would have it. And according to canon law, the marriage is to take place in YOUR church regardless, since you are the man.

While you may want to have a marriage based on mutuality, it must be understood that in Christ you are supposed to be the leader, though this does not mean some sort of dictatorship.

And if this is any indication, you might want to slow down and discuss this vital, central issue before you go any further. Your children are supposed to be brought up in the sui juris Church you belong to. And that means baptised, chrismated, communed, and catechised.

From personal observatations and from my own experience, I'd like to tell you that this is a very serious area.

In Christ,

BOB

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
The "vows", such as they are, rightfully belong in the Betrothal Service, not in the Crowning. Originally, the Betrothal was a public announcement of the intention of the couple to wed, and was performed by the priest in the narthex of the Church. Betrothal was binding: it constituted (and still constitutes) an impediment to marriage, and in most cases, failure to follow through on the betrothal would prevent a subsequent sacramental marriage. Therefore, over the centuries, the betrothal was constantly moved back towards the day of the crowning, until today, it usually occurs immediately prior to the Crowning, when the two services have not (as in the Ruthenian rite) been mashed into one.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 458
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 458
Erik,

When are you getting married?

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 33
ajk Offline
Member
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 33
Originally Posted by ErikJ
...My fiance is VERY sad that her father can't walk her down the aisle, and that no music can play as she walks down...

There is a solution that I have witnessed that I think works well.

The present official marriage ritual for the BCC (Ruthenian) church has the ring ceremony within the marriage itself. If it is moved to its proper place before the marriage, and is to be celebrated immediately before the marriage as is usually the case, then there is what seems to me a very workable solution, an adaptation not a violation of the norm. The father, or parents, or parent, or whoever escorts the bride part of the way down the isle, even with appropriate instrumental music of choice, along with singing as warranted and desired. That is taking place prior to the Byzantine ritual which will then begin with the betrothal. There (though not the narthex) the "betrothal", that is the exchange of rings takes place. After the betrothal the priest leads the couple to the front of the church with the traditional, unaccompanied singing of Psalm 127 as specified. The rest of the service is as in the Byzantine rite according to the appropriate recension.

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
Eric,

Send me a PM or email.

Fr. Deacon Lance


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
E
Junior Member
Junior Member
E Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
october 9, 2010

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0