www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Met. Jonah at Anglican Church meeting in Bedford, TX

Here is the video:

http://byztex.blogspot.com/2009/06/metropolitan-jonah-speaks-to-anglican.html

Not sure it captures the electricity (and the HEAT!) of the day, but glad it's finally up.

Raymond Arroyo's "The World Over" program yesterday reported regarding the ACNA assembly, that ACNA would be continuing to ordain women as deacons and priests, and I believe he said not allow ordination of gay priests as bishops. That probably would keep them a distance still from "full... intercommunion"

I can't vouch for more than 25 years, myself, since that was the first time I was communed in an Orthodox parish in a village. Said village had no Catholics.

I don't think there is any use for dialogue with the Anglicans. They will always insist that they have unbroken Apostolic Succession and that the 39 Articles are completely in line with the ancient belief of the undivided Church. Some of them accept only four ecumenical councils while others accept all seven. I didn't think we could pick and choose which ones to believe? These "orthodox" Anglicans continue to ordain woman priests and deacons- what they don't seem to remember is that it was the ordination of women that lead to the other innovations in the Episcopal Church. How one came be in communion with a bishop who ordains women while you believe it is un-Apostolic (which it is) is beyond me. Or how some Anglicans believe in the real presence and some don't. They should follow the example of Blessed John Cardinal Newman when he realized the Church of England was not a Catholic or Apostolic Church and come into communion with an Apostolic Church. This is not meant as a knock but is out of love. I want them to be united to the Apostolic Churches but until they realize what they are (protestant) and that they aren't a Catholic there is no hope for this.
Good luck to the OCA but I think their ecumenical resources should be spent on dialogue with the Catholic Communion of Churches.
I look forward to the day when Orthodox and Catholics (of all rites) share in the one Eucharist, openly for the whole world to see- Christ's One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church!
I pray that the more traditional Anglicans will cross the tiber or head east.

Nelson,
I think that your views are partly correct. When +Jonah spoke to the ACNA convention he was issuing an invitation to dialogue. But he clearly had one audience in mind. He was mostly speaking to the Anglo-Catholics. These are indeed very close to Orthodoxy and there is hope that some of them can be brought into the Church. The main problem with the Anglicans, which you allude to, is that they have no real core doctrine. You have High Church Anglo-Catholics in the same communion as the heretics in the Episcopal Church. Calvinists worship next to charismatic Evangelicals. Common sense makes it clear we will never have communion with them as a body. But some of them might be drawn into Holy Orthodoxy.

I think what +Jonah did was to remind the High Church types in particular, that when they have finally had enough of the priestesses that they have choices besides Rome. As for the rest, there is little that can be done other than to pray for them.

I look forward to the day when the Catholic (and other Western Churches) adopt the traditional, first millenium practice of using leavened bread for communionn. It would be a real bad idea, IMHO, for Met. Jonah to go through with some type of "intercommunion" with these Anglicans. The OCA is already somewhat isolated from the rest of world Orthodoxy since 1970. I'm sure this will not only strain relations with the other Churches but also call into question the legitimacy of the OCA as a local Orthodox Church.

I'm with Fr. David, Fr. Serge and Fr. Anthony. When I read years ago where Bp. Spong questioned the Virgin Birth, Divinity and miracles of Jesus Christ, I realized I'd done the right thing by leaving the Episcopalianism for the Catholic Church. I have a dear friend who's an Episcopal "priest", but Anglicanism in general is a house built on sand in that it has no fixed dogmatism in its doctrine.

S

Ah yes, Spong. PECUSA expressed its great sensitivity to the Eastern Churches a number of years ago by making Spong the room-mate of Bishop Anba Bishoy of the Coptic Church! No wonder that the Copts have no use for the Anglicans.

Fr. Serge

"I look forward to the day when the Catholic (and other Western Churches) adopt the traditional, first millenium practice of using leavened bread for communionn."

Azymes! How quaint.

"Azymes", by definition, are unleavened!

Fr. Serge

Anglicanism and Protestantism in general are about as familiar to me as the dark side of the moon.
In my ignorance it seems the only thing the Orthodox and the Anglicans really have in common is repudiation of the papacy.

I find these statements not only to be erroneous but ludicrous. They not only show a superficial understanding of what is de facto, but also gives one reading this that the OCA is some sort of “fringe” group within Orthodoxy.

As a priest of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, I have had to serve OCA communities on occasion with the written blessing of both GOA and OCA hierarchs. There are a number of clergy in both jurisdictions that have that type of permission in case of need. Saint Vladimir’s Seminary has had not just one but several GOA clergy teaching there, including one of the auxiliary hierarchs of the archdiocese. Yet, this goes beyond the exchange from the EP to OCA, as the recently consecrated OCA Bishop of Pittsburgh and Western PA was canonically released from the Church of Greece to the OCA. The same can be said about the Bishop of Dearborn for the Romanian Episcopate of the OCA. He was canonically released from the Church of Romania to the OCA prior to his consecration. At a recent symposium last December at Saint Serge Theological Institute in Paris, which is under Ecumenical Patriarchate, several OCA clergy presented papers and concelebrated services in the presence of Archbishop Gabriel of Comana, the diocesan hierarch. The list of examples can go on and are public information.

While there may not be de juris recognition of the OCA by all the autocephalous Orthodox Churches, there is de facto recognition. I would strongly advise you that before posting erroneous information you check your facts and not go by personal prejudices that seems to be evident not only in this post but many others that you have posted on the forum as of late.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

Robert,

Why do we need to use leavened bread?

Alexis

Bravo Fr Anthony! We shouldn't bash one Jurisdiction or the other. Saying on is more Orthodox than the other (or more Catholic than the other) leads us no where and keeps the Body of Christ divided, which should be sad to all Apostolic Christians.

Also we should pray for those separated from the Apostolic Churches who have fallen into heresies and show them love. I pray that the new Anglican Church moves towards Orthodoxy or Catholicism but the realities of this are maybe slim- but anything is possible with God!

I think the OCA has a very good opportunity to take the lead in a unified Orthodoxy in America, along with GOA. Also it has a good opportunity to dialogue with the Greek Catholics in America since the current OCA at one time, I believe, in the not so distant past Greek Catholics who came into Orthodoxy in the early 20th century or late 19th (St. Alexis Toth).

Pray for me Fathers and all other members of this great forum.