www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Demolition of Jerusalem buildings

Anyone hear anything about this?

Israeli authorities threaten demolition of 500 church buildings in Jerusalem [imemc.org]

Is anyone really surprised? Fond though I am of kosher pastrami I positively refuse to set foot in any place that advertises in favor of Zionism.

Fr. Serge

Can Father Serge name one other country in the Middle East where Muslims, Christians and Jews are all free to worship without restriction and are all granted the kind of legal and political rights that people in Ireland tend to take for granted?

Somehow I do not accept the implication that demolishing 500 churches and church properties can be described as freedom of worship!

Fr. Serge

If you read the article carefully, you will find that very few of the buildings are churches, but rather are private homes being used by clergy, monastics and religious. Most of them were condemned under the law of eminent domain as part of a longstanding urban renewal program. You will find that similar situations exist throughout the United States and most other democratic countries.

Regarding the permit process, having been involved with attempts to get permission to build a new church in Fairfax County, VA, I can safely say that there is essentially no difference among bureaucrats anywhere, that permit processes are utterly opaque in all cases, and that the decisions of zoning and licensing boards are always arbitrary and capricious. Yet one would be hard pressed to say Fairfax is a hotbed of Zionism (quite the reverse: both a mosque and the immense Saudi Islamic Academy received approval for their facilities at breakneck speed).

The entire article posted was tendentious, using loaded and in some cases misleading language (how many readers, seeing the headline, thought Israel was destroying 500 churches?). In fact, the entire article is a Palestinian propaganda piece, witness this paragraph:


I am particularly fond of the terms "1948 takeover of Palestine" (as though there was no UN partition resolution, no Arab invasion, no Jordanian and Egyptian occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip), and 1967 War of Aggression (that neatly inverts the well documented history of the Six Day War and the events leading to it). And I notice no effort was made to interview any Israeli sources or to verify the statements made by any of the Palestinians interviewed in the article.

Going to the "About Us" page of the web site, one discovers that IMEC is pretty much a propaganda organ, not a legitimate journalistic source. In dealing with the Middle East, one must constantly vet all news sources, particularly Arab ones, whose standards of objectivity leave a great deal to be desired.

Thank you for your thoughtful and articulate effort to expose this latest manifestation of anti-semitism. The "Protocols" just will not die.

Alas, my copy of the "Protocols" is buried in the attic somewhere - haven't seen it for over twenty years.

Propaganda? Well, the UN resolution on partition did not award the Zionist state much of the territory which it immediately proceeded to grab.

I remember the Six-Day War only too well. The Zionists took advantage of it to grab the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, thus destroying all that remained of the Palestinian state as defined in 1948.

I would have serious difficulty in locating any state (other than the Zionist one) on the face of the earth which makes citizenship contingent upon religion.

Fr. Serge

I have far too much affection for Father Serge to argue this out in public. I am, however, a military historian and foreign affairs analyst by profession, and I will simply say that his memory does not accord with the facts.

On Israeli citizenship, approximately 20% of all Israelis are Arab Muslims, about 5% are Christians, Druze and other minorities. For obvious reasons, Israel, founded as a Jewish state, gives preference to Jews with regard to immigration. As for other states that make religion a criterion for citizenship, try Saudi Arabia. Of all the Arab states, only Lebanon makes a pretense of pluralism, and that has not been working out too well of late. In all the others, Christians are tolerated and do not have anything approaching full equality under law (which Arab Israelis do have).

Father Serge might also want to consider the fate of the ancient Jewish communities in Muslim countries post-1948, and judge Israeli behavior relative to that, rather than against some abstract, ahistorical standard.

Father Serge is only too well aware of the fate of long-standing Jewish communities in the Middle East since 1948. Father Serge is also only too well aware of the fate of long-standing Christian communities in the Middle East. But we should realize that some of this horror is caused by what happened (and happens) in Palestine.

Fr. Serge

Shlomo Stuart,

I agree that the article is badly written, but its main points are still valid.


Your point would be valid if Jews and non-Jews where treated equally before the law, which they are not. Our own State Department has documented for years now the fact that Israel has a policy in Jerusalem to rid it of any of its Palestinian residents. Further, the Israel Government (through independent commissions) has found that it does discriminate. Therefore, how is your point valid?


I would ask you how is the statement not accurate? By what right did the United Nations have the right to partition Palestine without a vote of the people? I would also agree that both the occupation and annexation of parts of Palestine by Jordan and Egypt where illegal.


Again I have to disagree with you and agree with Abuna. Israel was the agressor. Just as it was the aggressor in '54 (along with Britain and France).

The point which Abuna Serge is quite right about is that Israel along with many of the nations of the Middle East has a policy of discrimination against minorities within their boundries.

While I agree that journalistic standards in the Arab press are lacking, I would point out that the Zionists in this nation also lack objectivity.

What I and others here find upsetting is that people find it acceptable that the Palestinian people have to pay for the sins of Europe. (And yes I did choose my words carefully). Further, many of us are upset because so called "Christians" in this nation see nothing wrong with Israel's systematic distruction of Christianity within its boarders (and yes we are upset with how Christians are treated in any Middle Eastern country). But since this is focused on Israel that is the nation that should be addressed.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Shlomo Stuart,

This is not to beatup on you, but I thought that you the following articles would prove to be informative for you.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Pontiff Calls for Sovereign Palestinian Homeland

Announces Vatican Plan for Bilateral Commission

BETHLEHEM, MAY 13, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Expressing support for the goal of a sovereign Palestinian homeland, Benedict XVI announced that the Holy See will institute a bilateral commission with the Palestinian Authority.

The Pope affirmed this today as he closed a full day of events in the Palestinian Territories, stating that the Holy See "looks forward" to "establishing shortly" the "Bilateral Permanent Working Commission that was envisioned in the Basic Agreement," signed Feb. 15, 2000 between the Holy See and the Palestine Liberation Organization.

The Pontiff's visit began this morning as he traveled from Jerusalem, where he is staying until Friday, and passed through the border between Israel and the Palestinian Territories at the Tomb of Rachel door.

He stopped at Bethlehem's presidential palace, where he was greeted by the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas.

The Holy Father affirmed, "I earnestly beg the Almighty for peace, a just and lasting peace, in the Palestinian Territories and throughout the region."

He assured the president that "the Holy See supports the right of your people to a sovereign Palestinian homeland in the land of your forefathers, secure and at peace with its neighbors, within internationally recognized borders."

Benedict XVI encouraged the crowd assembled for the welcoming ceremony to "keep alive the flame of hope" that a solution will be found to meet "the legitimate aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians for peace and stability."

He made a particular appeal to the international community to "bring its influence to bear in favor of a solution."

Acknowledging the effects of recent conflict in Gaza, the Holy Father expressed the hope that reconstruction will happen quickly with international assistance.

Homeless

Later, the Pope visited the Aida refugee camp, north of Bethlehem, where around 5,000 Christian and Muslim Palestinians have made their homes.

On a stage built in the shadow of the cement separation wall marking the Israeli border, formal presentations were made for the Pontiff. Children performed a dance holding black keys, signifying their desire to return "home" to villages in Israel, and recited poetry lamenting the loss of their homeland.

President Abbas addressed the Pope, calling for a resolution of conflicts and sending a message of peace to Israel with an appeal for the withdrawal of the tight security around the Palestinian Territories.

The Holy Father was presented with a scarf embroidered with the Jewish Star of David, the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Catholic basilica of the Nativity, symbolizing the desire for unity among the three religions.

Benedict XVI addressed the crowd, expressing solidarity with the "homeless Palestinians who long to be able to return to their birthplace, or to live permanently in a homeland of their own."

He affirmed: "Your legitimate aspirations for permanent homes, for an independent Palestinian State, remain unfulfilled. Instead you find yourselves trapped, as so many in this region and throughout the world are trapped, in a spiral of violence, of attack and counter-attack, retaliation, and continual destruction."

The Pope added that "the whole world is longing for this spiral to be broken."

He called for "bold and imaginative initiatives towards reconciliation" to end the stalemate that arises when each side only insists on concessions from the other.

The long-term solution to "a conflict such as this can only be political," asserted the Pontiff.

He added that "no one expects the Palestinian and Israeli peoples to arrive at it on their own."

"The support of the international community is vital," said the Holy Father, as he appealed to "all concerned to bring their influence to bear in favor of a just and lasting solution."

Yet, he added, "diplomatic efforts can only succeed if Palestinians and Israelis themselves are willing to break free from the cycle of aggression."

Leaving the refugee camp, Benedict XVI went once more to the presidential palace for a farewell ceremony. He met privately with the president, and then gave a public address.

The Pope acknowledged that it was "deeply moving" to listen to the stories of the people about "the conditions of life here on the West Bank and in Gaza."

He noted his "anguish" in seeing the situation of the refugees and observing the wall overshadowing the city, "separating neighbors and dividing families."

As he left Bethlehem, the Pontiff gave an assurance "that I will continue to take every opportunity to urge those involved in peace negotiations to work towards a just solution that respects the legitimate aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians alike."

and

Pope Urges Palestinian Christians to Build Church

Sends Message of Solidarity and Compassion to Gaza

BETHLEHEM, MAY 13, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI is assuring Palestinian Christians, especially those in Gaza, of the universal Church's support and solidarity in building their Churches and communities.

The Pope said this today in a Mass celebrated in Manger Square, in front of the basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem, during his day-long visit to the Palestinian Territories.

Over 10,000 people crowded the square and adjoining streets, listening as the Pontiff urged them to be "witnesses of the triumph of God's love over the hatred, selfishness, fear and resentment which cripple human relationships and create division."

He told the Holy Land Christians, "Do not be afraid!"

The Holy Father assured them of the "prayers and solidarity" of the universal Church and encouraged them to "work, with concrete initiatives, to consolidate your presence and to offer new possibilities to those tempted to leave."

Vatican Radio reported today that the number of Christians in Bethlehem has recently dropped from 80% of the population to 15%, and that many seek to emigrate due to the instability of the labor market, the political insecurity, and the threats of fundamentalist Muslims.

The Latin patriarch of Jerusalem, Archbishop Fouad Twal, told Benedict XVI on Tuesday, "You stand before a small flock that is shrinking, that suffers from emigration, largely due to the effects of the unjust occupation and all its humiliation, violence and hatred."

The Pope exhorted the Christians, "Build up your local Churches, making them workshops of dialogue, tolerance and hope, as well as solidarity and practical charity."

He underlined the need for not only "new economic and community structures, but most importantly," a "new 'spiritual' infrastructure."

The Pontiff stated: "This noble enterprise awaits you. Do not be afraid!"

Christians respond

The Catholic mayor of Bethlehem, Victor Batarseh, told ZENIT at the Mass that he hopes the Pope's message will "encourage Palestinian Christians to be steadfast on their land and encourage them to stay."

Batarseh, a former physician, added, "As brothers and sisters of Bethlehem we hope that his coming will bring peace and love to all the people."

Later, at the presidential palace, the mayor addressed the Holy Father on behalf of all the West Bank Christians, affirming, "We are all touched by your visit."

He described the visit as a "great symbol of hope" that inspires us with a "determination to remain implanted in our Holy Land as the living stones."

Another Christian, a Palestinian Authority minister and a descendent of a family that has lived in Bethlehem since Christ's birth, also addressed the Pope, affirming the goal to remain in the land and to help build a society based on values of peace and forgiveness.

Gaza

Although some Palestinian Catholics from Gaza joined in the Mass and other events, only 48 successfully received permission from the Israeli authorities to travel to Bethlehem past the security checkpoints.

The Pontiff directed some words of the homily in Manger Square to assure them, "My heart goes out to the pilgrims from war-torn Gaza."

He sent a message to the 1.5 million people living in the Gaza Strip, including some 300 Catholics: "I ask you to bring back to your families and your communities my warm embrace, and my sorrow for the loss, the hardship and the suffering you have had to endure."

The Holy Father assured them of his "solidarity with you in the immense work of rebuilding which now lies ahead" after the recent conflict with Israel that ended Jan. 18 and left some 1,300 dead.

He also said that he would pray that the embargo, which was imposed by Israel since Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in 2007, will "soon be lifted."

Earlier today, Benedict XVI expressed the hope for "greater freedom of movement, especially with regard to contact between family members and access to the holy places."

After the Mass, the Pope went on foot to visit the grotto of the Nativity, the site where Jesus was born. He then traveled to the Caritas Baby Hospital where he assured the young patients and their families, "The Pope is with you!"

The Pontiff next visited the Aida refugee camp, and after a farewell ceremony at Bethlehem's presidential palace, he returned to Jerusalem where he will stay until the conclusion of his apostolic visit on Friday.

"The point which Abuna Serge is quite right about is that Israel along with many of the nations of the Middle East has a policy of discrimination against minorities within their boundaries."

I have to agree with this. The level of religious tolerance is far broader in America than Israel. One would err to presume that Israelis are as a whole are tolerant of religious minorities.

Terry

I like you too much to argue with you, either, Yuhannon.

It is nice to be liked. It is not so nice that someone uses the statement that he likes me as an excuse for refusing to engage with reality.

I do owe Stuart a point; Saudi Arabia certainly has strict requirements making it almost impossible for anybody except Mohammedans and employees of the oil companies to live in Saudi Arabia.

But if Stuart would like to see an Arab country with a reasonable policy of religious pluralism, especially for us Christians, I suggest a visit to Syria - lovely place, and Syrian Christians are not doing badly.

Jews in Syria are not doing well at all - because the Syrians are not anxious to allow the Syrian Jews to leave Syria, move to the Zionist state, and take up arms against Syria. The Zionist state is still, quite illegally, occupying the Golan Heights.

Fr. Serge

Syrian Christians are not doing badly? I suppose that depends on how one defines "badly". There is occasional violence against Christians, which is usually ignored by the civil authorities. The principal in Christian schools must be a Muslim, not a Christian. Permission for a new Christian school has not been granted in close to 50 years. One could go on.

Syria - like Israel and Lebanon - is better for Christians than many other countries in the neighborhood. But it is no picnic for them. They are not exactly free to invite Muslims to become Christians by witnessing to them!

The original article is a propaganda piece. I am no big fan of Israeli politics (or of those of most of the nearby countries). But I do recognize that if Israel did not form a country and defend itself there are those who would not stop until every Jew was dead. That was the problem with the PLO (and the current leadership of the Palestinians). They don't want peace. They want the Jews dead and won't stop until they succeed. They care little about the lives of the people under their charge (who generally do wish to live in peace). The horrors that happen to the Palestinian people are not all the fault of Israel - the Palestinian government holds equal blame (or more).

As to the whole idea of land even we Americans do not have an absolute right to our own property. The Supreme Court ruled last year in Kelso that the government may take your land for any reason whatsoever (or for no reason at all).