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Both Logos & Stuart seem to be talking past one another.

Fight nice, please!

Stuart,

Even the Wikipedia entry for "Roman Catholic dogma" is pretty good.

Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Dogma#cite_note-4

Alexis

If only I was a Roman Catholic, life would be so much better for you.

Alexis,

Stuart may be caustic in some of his posts, but he is correct on this. We are not Roman Catholic. We don't think like Roman Catholics. The link you provided almost assumes that all Catholics think like Romans (that is, in Latin and with a Latin mindset for theology). That is always the basis of disagreement for we are not Latins and don't need to worry about Latin theology in order to be Catholic.

Or to put it another way. Think of the American who sees the world in terms of hamburgers, french fries and cokes. The Christian in Iraq could care less and has no interest for he is not an American and does not particularly like hamburgers.

John

I do not want to get into the fray of who’s correct and who is not. Perhaps neither Stuart nor Alexis are. The Bishop of Rome never uses the term Roman Catholic, nor do any documents emanating from the Vatican. The Anglicans gave us this term and so they should keep it along with female bishops. I’d like to see it dropped from this forum, and from Catholic usage in general. “Pope” is another unfortunate term that comes from England. It sounds severe and pompous, and hardly conveys the tenderness and affection that the Latin word “papa” or the Italian “Il Papa” do. The Church does not need the former, but certainly needs and longs for the later.

I am a Catholic Christian, period. Without going into the details of my life, suffice it to say that I have, and I do breathe with two lungs. It’s possible and most beneficial. Try, as deeply as you can, to breathe in the Church’s rich Tradition, both east and west, and begin a new day that might end these terrible divides that keep us talking past each other. Eventual unity with our Orthodox brothers and sisters will bring about a Catholic Church which none of us can now quite imagine. Il Papa will find his place. I know the present one would like this very
much, and it would suit his profound ecclesiology.

Of course I didn't name the article "Roman Catholic dogma." But it is, unfortunately, common to refer to all Catholics as Roman Catholics, as we all know.

And, Stuart, the goodness of my life does not depend on your religious affiliation. LOL.

Alexis

"The Bishop of Rome never uses the term Roman Catholic, nor do any documents emanating from the Vatican. "

It's convenient and I will continue to use it. And I will continue to use the word "Pope" as well, for the same reason. For some reason, it does not seem to bother Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria, or Pope Benedict XVI, as much as it does you.

Eastern Christians routinely use the terms "Latin Catholic" and "Roman Catholic" to differentiate between Catholic theology and Latin / Roman theology. I understand that some Roman Catholics do not appreciate it but it is a legitimate usage.

This was not, strictly speaking, an "ecumenical" service ["ecumenical" is used with reference to relationships between two or more Christian groups which are not in full agreement), but it seems relevant.

A few years ago a new hospital was dedicated in a large city in the northeastern USA. Various Christian clergy (including Catholics, Orthodox, and a pot-pouri of Protestants) offered prayers; so did a rabbi and someone from the nearest mosque. But then an unexpected feature followed:

those in charge proudly introduced a pagan "priest" imported from West Africa to invoke blessings on the hospital. He produced a basket containing two potatoes and a bunch of carrots and started to offer . . . well, we're not sure what, because the indigenous representatives all departed as swiftly as possible!

Fr. Serge

Admin,

So is "Roman Catholic" sort of like "Uniate," in that some people belonging to the group described to not appreciate the term, but the term is still "legitimate" and has meaning, can be found in any common dictionary (as I just found "Uniate" in mine), etc.?

By the way, I don't really have a problem with the term "Roman Catholic" to refer to the Latin Church sui iuris; only inasmuch as it is conflated in describing the entire Catholic Church.

Alexis

Alexis,

Not really. "Uniate" has taken on a negative connotation and is often used as a pejorative. "Roman Catholic" can be found in some of the official documents of that Church. Also, the parish in my neighborhood has "St. Mary of Sorrows Roman Catholic Church" on its sign. You'll never find "St. Theophan the Recluse Uniate Church" on a sign anywhere. Both terms are used and we can't stop that. But in a Byzantine household (this Forum) we can discourage the pejorative use of both terms.

John

Actually John, I have seen this on a few early US Church cornerstones.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/asdamick/14198565/in/set-335721/

Greek Catholic church in Simpson, Pa with "Uniat" on the cornerstone.

I guess that, 100 years ago, fewer people thought of Uniate as a pejorative. Or perhaps they felt that the association with Rome was something to be embraced.



As an aside, from the same set of flickr photos, a Latin high altar which looks strikingly like an Iconostas.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/asdamick/37592048/in/set-335721/

I understand that you can find it here and there. But it is not a term in common use as a self-descriptor and you know it.