www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pictures of ordination of Bishop Nikola of Krizevci

And gosh, how has this devolved into a talk about one Latin priest, who isn't even a contributor to the website mentioned? Yes, some people are wacko, even bigots. Priests, too. Can we move on?

Alexis

I am a Melkite. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on why I said what I said. I have some issues with the comments made by Peter Stravinskas and them ignorant Latins who spew nonsense. I can stand stupid questions (because they actually learn something when we answer, and because no question is stupid to begin with), but I cannot stand Latin imperialism and the patronizing of Eastern Christians by them. It was quite enough when I read all that.

I won't hold Shawn Tribe & Co accountable for any of the commenter's thoughts. They are after all, running a site on liturgy, and that has nothing to do with liturgy. However, as a Melkite, I am happy to educate my fellow Latin brothers and sisters about the Byzantine East - I've done that a few times and I won't stop huffing and puffing about it all. But for all intents and purposes, some people are still doubtful as to whether we are really Catholic or not and that is the thing that still irks me.

Until the Catholic Church really pronounces as a dogma that universality, and not uniformity is the thing that makes the Church Catholic, I'll just have to live with the fact that the Latin Church is part of a conspiracy to subdue us as second-class Catholics by not telling their people about us.

ps: Eis polla eti despota to all the new Eastern bishops.

It's rather interesting to see this discussion.

First, it must be noted that the NLM proper is a site made up of a handful of writers. Commenter comments are not necessarily indicative of what the NLM proper stands for. This said, not all commenters leave immoderate or uninformed comments, and the vast majority (less than 1%) do not leave comments at all. These are important distinctions and recollections.

Second, the NLM proper is neither anti-Eastern, nor is it only interested in the "pretty liturgies" of the East. Speaking for myself, my own approach to the Christian East has always been through not only the divine liturgy, but also through consideration of the Eastern theological tradition generally as represented in the like of Schmemann, Taft, Lossky, J. Meyendorff, Cavarnos, Ouspensky, Spidlik, Andreopoulos, Evdokimov, etc., and through its spirituality as per the Jesus Prayer, monasticism, divinization and the great Eastern spiritual classics such as The Way of a Pilgrim, the Philokalia and so on.

I hope this helps clarify.

Shawn Tribe

Collin said: "Until the Catholic Church really pronounces as a dogma that universality, and not uniformity is the thing that makes the Church Catholic, I'll just have to live with the fact that the Latin Church is part of a conspiracy to subdue us as second-class Catholics by not telling their people about us."

Universality makes the Church Catholic. Uniformity makes her Orthodox (well, not necessarily, but you get the idea). We're both united and unique.

Alexis

It is always a dangerous practice to elevate aberrations on the margins to be representative of the norm. Everybody talks about "clown masses", but how many have actually seen one? If you are going to talk about liturgical abuses post-Vatican II, then you should examine those that are most common (and therefore more pernicious and difficult to identify). On that basis, there isn't much difference between the pre-conciliar and post-conciliar Latin Church. Bad liturgy is bad liturgy, regardless of the form being used, regardless of the language being used.

Way off topic at this point, folks, and the thread has ceased to be about News. I'm going to shut it down - but, I will split off the off-topic material tonight (haven't the time at this moment) and open it as a thread in the E-W Forum.

Many years,

Neil

In looking this thread over tonight, I don't think that it's worth reopening. Its content has become focused on NLM and, quite honestly, I'm not convinced that bashing Mr Tribe or his site for what non-site commentators post there is a really useful or worthwhile avenue to pursue. There are any number of threads, new and old, that address the issues of Latin misperceptions, hostilities, etc. Splitting off posts from this thread to create another such isn't going to solve the problem.

Many years,

Neil