www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Open Letter to ByzCath

[quote=rwprof][quote=Nelson Chase]I think we should shy away from the term "uniates" as I feel, and others may also feel, that is a derogatory term. [/quote]

I might point out that the term is strictly verboten on the Orthodox Christianity forum. Ironic, isn't it?

[/quote]

I dont really think it is that bad. How about crazy old calenderest, Mathewites,Cyprianites,Chrysostomites. It makes us look like cultist when we are refered to in this manner.I dont care. What ever helps them tell us apart i guess.

I can say that I spent several years in the Catholic church and never did I beleave that I was Orthodox in communion with Rome. It just isnt possible with the way our theologies are soo different. I remember that we could never celebrate the dormition and always celebrated the assumption. How about the rosery before liturgy instead of the hours. never did we have Vespers or Vigil. Orthros or Matins was forbidden. Troparia and Kontakia were the first to go if the liturgy was to run over the 40 minute rule. I realize that all parishes are not the same but come on not every place is like Brampton,Canada. Our priest was a Jesuit.

We could talk for days and years about the things that we have in common and the things that we dont but thats just it. I for one will never compromise my faith as it has been handed down to me and I really only want that from the catholics here. You see I would rather have a catholic tell me I am wrong than compromise and say that we have alot in common or """we just look at it differant". No what has happened here is Ecumenism plain and simple. If it is so easy to me in communion with Rome and be Orthodox then why are we not? Why wasnt St Mark of Ephesus?

Chad

Chad,

I think denying that differences exist on a theological level and exaggerating the differences to the point that they resemble a caricature of the actual reality are two extremes that should be scrupulously avoided.

As to your liturgical experience, I think that there is a mixture of the good and the bad both within Eastern Catholicism and Orthodoxy, although I think I see more issues within Eastern Catholicism. But in certain respects and in certain places where there is a true commitment to live a full liturgical life, this is really changing for the good.

In fact much of the anemia suffered by Eastern Catholic theology corresponds directly to the diminishment of our liturgical life, since our theology is primarily doxological and liturgical. Where the fullness of this life has been rekindled, there is a corresponding rekindling of Eastern theologizing and spirituality. Otherwise we suffer from the paralyzing minimalism that defines much of Western Culture, where utility, validity, functionality and sufficiency are apparently absolutized as principles of liturgical worship.

And Rome has been telling us to do this for a very, very long time. We are often our own worst enemies, however.

As to "easy," no one says that it is easy to be both Orthodox and Catholic. Those of us who live as Orthodox Christians in communion with Rome feel the cross of our catholicity on a regular basis. But it is a cross many of us are willing, by God's grace, to bear, with humility and no easy, pat answers or extreme positions. To embrace Orthodoxy and Catholicism without embracing the polemics that have defined the relationship between the "two" for so long is not easy, and requires patient discernment and charity.

God bless,

Fr. Deacon Daniel

I think you could still not use the term and simply say- Eastern Catholic.

There have been many latinizations but the Eastern (Byzantine Church) is trying to return to its authentic traditions. I would also so point out that in 19th century Russian the Orthodox Church was influenced by Latin traditions. I think it depends on what Parish you go to (in both the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches). The Eastern Catholic parish I belong to is more traditional than the Orthodox Church I was a member of before entering into communion with the Church of Rome. (I am not saying this in a negative way but just as a point of reference- I love my old parish)

Also Father Robert Taft is a member of the Society of Jesus and he is one of the leading Eastern Catholic Theologians. I don't think an EC priest being a religious of western order is a bad thing ( but we should encourage growth in traditional forms of Eastern Monasticism- HRM in California is a good example).


Carrying the Cross of Orthodoxy and Catholicism at the same time is hard at times but I thank the Lord for calling me to it.

I wont use Uniates and you wont use Orthodox in communion with Rome and we wont offend each other. I would say that those of us who are Orthodox and came from the Eastern Catholics can see blareing differances that most wont. I was a clean slate when I became catholic and had no baggage from any other church so I soaked it up like a sponge. I read everything put in front of me and then I read more.You wouldnt beleve my library its huge.Most guys have toys I have the menaion from St John of Krondstat Press. Look my point is this people like Alexander Kalomiros and Ap.Sderiphim Slobodskoy are standard reading for Traditional Orthodox. Now in the Traditional Orthodox world it is said that we dont even have the same god as the Muslims and Jews but didnt Pope John Paul 2 say that you did.

That to most Orthodox is a very big deal. I for one will not white wash alot of the Orthodox faith simply for the sake of unity.I just think that someone should finally offer not discuss the true faith. I am not here to fight or pull strings or be disruptive I just tell it like it is in the Traditional Orthodox world

Let's deal with the question of the God of the Jews. Are you asserting that the God of the Jews is a different God than that of the Christians?

I believe that the heresy of Marcionism asserted something similar.

As to renouncing the claim to be "Orthodox in Communion with Rome," we should no more renounce that then ask you to renounce referring to your Church as "catholic" in the Creed. "Uniate" is largely a term of derision, so it is just for us to request that you cease applying it to us. I would equally chastise any of my co-religionists for referring to Orthodox not in communion with Rome as the "Schismatic East."

I would never refer to an Old Calenderist as crazy or use one of the many slanderous terms applied to them. And I will not stop proclaiming what I am- An Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome, You may disagree with me but that doesn't mean you can use a term that is derogatory. I don't believe saying we are Orthodox in Union with Rome is an offensive term. You may disagree with me but then again there are some in the Orthodox Church who feel the Greek Old Calenderist are not Orthodox (I do not believe this). So should you not then use the term Orthodox because a New Calendar Orthodox doesn't feel that you are? Or for that matter should a New Calendar Orthodox not use this term in your opinion since they use the revised Julian calendar, which one could argue places them outside of Orthodoxy? I wouldn’t say any of them are not Orthodox or that they are schismatic.


To claim that we don't have the same God as the Jewish people is absurd and I have never heard a traditionalist Orthodox say such a thing. That is an ancient heresy that the undivided Church fought against.

Something about the living faith of the dead and the dead faith of the living comes to mind.