www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall ObamaCare may fund abortions

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/19/video-obamacare-may-fund-abortions/

Subdeacon,
Thank you for the link.
This is why every Christian should oppose government-controlled healthcare. It will become a matter of conscience.


Ray

Yes, it is scary indeed. Tax payer funded abortion is just one of the multitude of reasons not to allow them to force socialized health care on us.

Medicare already pays for abortions, but what they're seeking to do is to expand government support for the brutal act.

I heard rumor that the a "freedom of conscience" clause will be slipped into the bill that carries out some of the intentions of the Freedom of Choice Act.

Pregnancy is not an illness.

I am wondering if the folks who voted for B.H.O. are starting to have buyers remorse...

I heard that though more minorities voted, the voting rate did not increase. I'm wondering how much of the drop in voting numbers (from what was expected) came from conservatives abstaining from the whole process. If that number was significant, we may just be a good push and nudge away from gaining some ground in 2010 and perhaps 2012 if the right people campaign and make clear distinctions.

Terry

It's ironic that in countries such as Canada, the availability of universal healthcare is considered to be an expression of Christian love for your fellow citizen, whereas within the USA it appears that the exact opposite seems to be true. It would be interesting to have more non US citizens post their opinion on the matter, including perhaps non US clergy.

I.F.

Yankees may win out at the end, but I still side for freedom.

JF,

You are confusing wishful thinking with reality. Look at the facts. Health care in other countries is rationed. I care about others so much I do not wish them to be denied health care by the government. Governments should not be making health care decisions in place of doctors.

How do you (and others) go from the fact that some do not have insurance (by choice for many since the poor already qualify for Medicaid and other programs but many poor just don’t sign up) to a demand for government-controlled, rationed health care?

What makes you think that medical care will be better once the government is in charge of health care decisions? The evidence shows that the quality of health care now in America is the best in the world (yes, I know you generally reject facts but really you should not).

President Obama talks openly about rationed care. Imagine Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans’ hospitals. Right now they are very inefficient, and the quality of health care is often not very good. Imagine what they will become the government starts rationing care.

Please tell us how it is an example of Christian love to deny someone health care by rationing?

Please tell us how it is an example of Christian love to force taxpayers to fund abortions, the murder of the innocent?

Denied Health Care in England [news.sky.com]

Mayo Clinic Calls House Plan Bad Medicine [washingtontimes.com]

John

To all,
I copied the above from a NCHLA email that I received. I urge everyone to email their Senators and Representative through the above site....its easy! Customize the message to your own thoughts.

Our postcard campaign to stop FOCA (so-called Freedom of Choice Act) was so successful that Congressional leadership didn't consider introducing the bill because of intense opposition. Instead they will introduce elements directly through the bill or through anonymous bureaucratic regulations.

Essentials safeguards that national healthcare MUST stipulate are:
No high school funding for birth control which will become as common as vaccinations
A conscience clause that any institution or person may opt out of abortion and assisted suicide support.
No national "panel" to consider whether the patient is "productive" enough to warrant normal health care.
No additional funds for embryonic stem cell research.

I encourage you all to voice your convictions to our elected representatives. Once is is out of their hands, the "apparachik" bureaucrats will determine who should live and who is "unworthy."

Fr Deacon Paul

I would caution readers that the government just may enact national health-care without the funding for abortion, contraception etc. for now because of the strong pro-life views of many. The powerful pro-abortion lobby may settle on "half-a-loaf" for now and will eventually get what they want later. Then it will be too late. That is how politics works.

Ray

Sorry folks - but your logic is badly flawed. In fact, Canada has a much lower abortion rate than the USA;

Lack of social medicine increases abortion rates in USA when compared to Canada [guttmacher.org]

It can therefore be concluded, that the socialized Canadian national health care program (actually 14 of them) reduces abortion rates when compared to the USA's 'great-for-a-few-but-only-kinda-of-ok-for-most-unless-they-are-really-sick-and-really-lousy-for-the-46-million-who-die-slow-painfull-deaths-because-some-brainwashed-people-believe-it-keeps-abortion-rates-down-when-in-fact-when-you-compare-to-Canada's-socialized-system-the-exact-opposite-is-true' system.

I.F.

Dear I.F.
The question is, for me, maybe not for you...should any Catholic be forced to pay for an abortion?

Ray

Sorry, JF, you don't know what you are talking about. It's not about rates. It's about murder paid for by the state. One is too many. But, really, you never answer questions put to you. That is because you cannot. Why do you wish to ration care and hurt people?

I expect your next post to start with: "I, J.F., wish to ration care and hurt people because...."

If you are a Christian you should reject abortion and call it murder. Will you do so now? Or do you also reject Christ's Commandments?

Catholics and all Christians should simply voice their concerns as you have done, and legistlate abortion out of the healthcare debate.

It's time for the USA to come to realize that medical care is far to complex and consequently expensive for most Americans to ever contemplate funding without some financial support from the government. It's just a whole different world as compared to what your grandparents experienced, and it will only get more complex and expensive over time.

Providing sound quality healthcare to ALL US citizens is one of the best recipes for reducing abortions not increasing their rate. Quality affordable healthcare will reduce the murder of unborn children as it has done in Canada. The scientific statistics are there to prove it.

Again, it would be great if some non USA posters could speak to this issue (comparing social Canada to non-social USA).

I.F.