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Dec 29th, 2019
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There are a few examples of the Approved New Missal Translations, I forgot to include the celebrant's parts...mea culpa http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/examples.shtmlChanges in the Assembly's Parts PART OF MASS Suscipiat Dominus PRESENT TEXT - May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church. NEW TEXT - May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good and the good of all his holy Church.
Last edited by Jakub.; 08/20/09 04:54 PM.
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Nice site. Needs to have the Latin text in a third column.
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The prayer Oratre Fratres was not directed by the celebrant to the people, but by the celebrant to his co-celebrants ... A similar prayer is found in the Byzantine rite in slightly different form at the beginning of the Anaphora:
Celebrant: Remember me, brothers and fellow celebrants.
Concelebrants (and deacon): May the Lord God remember your priesthood in his kingdom.
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Deacon: Remember me, Father. Indeed, "was" not "is". The rubric even in the Missal of Pius V (1924) directs the priest "versus ad populum" for "Orate, fratres.."; but the rubric that follows before the "Suscipiat..." is just "Minister ... respondent..." This exchange in the Mass does then seem to correspond, as indicated in the links, to the given quoted exchange in the Byzantine rite. The given translation, however, also does not have the "holy" that is found in the Roman editions of the Greek p 43 [ patronagechurch.com] and Slavonic p 235 [ patronagechurch.com]. There it is clearly not "Remember me, Father" but "Remember me, holy Master." Also (just to note), while other priests may be concelebrating, THE "fellow celebrant" / concelebrant (Gk: sulleittourge; Sl: soslužitelu)* of the indicated liturgicons is the Deacon, the standard concelebrant at a Byzantine liturgy. ---------------------------------- * It's too bad the tern "liturgist" has its present meaning, otherwise it would be a better rendering than fellow-celebrant or concelebrant: co-liturgist as one who so functions for a liturgy.
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Indeed, "was" not "is". The rubric even in the Missal of Pius V (1924) directs the priest "versus ad populum" for "Orate, fratres.."; but the rubric that follows before the "Suscipiat..." is just "Minister ... respondent..." The problem for the Roman rite, of course, was the suppression of concelebration made the prayer redundant--yet there it was. The rubrics were altered to make some sense out of a prayer that, otherwise, the celebrant would be saying to and for himself.
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... otherwise, the celebrant would be saying to and for himself. You have underestimated the Tridentine ingenuity for the Priest doing it all. After the Orate, fratres ..., said it seems even if no one else is present, the Priest is explicitly directed by the rubrics to respond with the Suscipiat modified by replacing your (tuis) with my (meis): "May the Lord accept the sacrifice from my hands ..."
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Some jurisdictions are simply experimenting with different practical approaches to address their specific pastoral realities.
That is the problem... Says who?
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This topic is way off from the original question of who could give blessings. Now we've wandered into areas of people coming forward during Holy Communion in the Latin Church and further into other liturgical questions and practices.
Let's return to the original question and, if that is exhausted, let's break these other areas into new threads.
Bob
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Administrator' Note:
I just spent almost a half hour this evening disentangling this thread and splitting it into two threads. Bob/Theophan's warning still applies, since for the most part even this reconstituted thread is off-topic. If it can not be put back on-topic within the next day in line with the original post, I ask the moderator's for this section to close the thread.
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
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Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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I am weary Fr. Anthony of discussing this topic and will do my best at one last point of info... The Congregation for Divine Worship; Giving Blessings during the Communion Rite... http://www.adoremus.org/0209CDW_Blessing.html
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I'll back Jakub here . Early on , on page 1 I had also posted the same link which Jakub has just reposted in answer to the the OP's question Original linkI really think that it's time this thread got buried . The question in post number 329977 has been answered definitively by Rome.
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