www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Byzantine Catholics Returning to Prosphora Traditions?

I have to admit I've been away from the Forum for awhile, but I've tried to keep up with things in the Ruthenian Church. I live a long distance away from any Eastern Catholic parish and attend a Latin Rite parish. On vacation this year our family did attend 2 Ruthenian parishes, however. I noted that both parishes still use pre-cut prosphora for Liturgy. However, I was told that in one of our Eparchy's parishes that the priest there does not use pre-cut pieces, but uses whole prosphora loaves and when he does the Proskomedia he actually cuts the Lamb out and does the prescribed cuttings of that service.

So, I'm wondering. Are there some other Byzantine Catholic parishes which are restoring this tradition? The use of pre-cut pieces has always struck me as such an abandonment of our tradition and the real meaning of the Liturgy for the sake of convenience. It also distances us greatly from our Orthodox brothers and sisters.

Yes. The priests who have been serving @ St. Basil the Great parish in Irving, TX. (while we await the appointment of a resident pastor)prepare the bread in the traditional manner you describe.
For quite some time we have not been using what an Orthodox priest friend of mine laughingly calls "those pre-cut Byzantine host-ettes".

Before my internet connection was lost (I have an ancient, decrepit computer)I was going to add that St. Basil's is one of the few parishes that actually has a prosphora tree growing behind the rectory. When it's time for Liturgy, the priest just goes an picks a fresh prosphora from it.
No - just kidding. We have a rota of parishioners who take turns baking the loaves at home.

I sometimes wish there were such a tree.... But, despite the fact that I don't look forward to the work, making prosphora is emotionally satisfying.

Fr David Straut

I had no idea some byzantine catholic parishes did not prepare the prosphora. To be honest I am quite dismayed

We have designated bakers here in Illinois.

My wife might join them someday.

Well, it varies from place to place. The way it was a few years back was that the vast majority of Ruthenian parishes used pre-cut pieces. Very few used a traditional Lamb. Some parishes would prepare the loaf and then cut it up beforehand. Some never used a seal on the bread.

You can usually get an idea of a parish's practice during the Liturgy when the priest sings:

"We offer to You Yours of Your Own..."

and elevates the gifts.

That's often when you can see (depending how far you are from the altar) if the parish is using a traditional Lamb or not.

Also, if the parish does not distribute the antidoron at the end of Liturgy then they probably were not using a traditional loaf to begin with. The bread from antidoron comes from the part of the loaf that is not consecrated.

The logistics of returning to the proper use of prosphora in the Proskomide can be difficult for some Ruthenian parishes, given that the weekly reception of communion is almost universal. At Epiphany of Our Lord in Annandale, for instance, there are typically between 100-150 recipients, yet the Proskomide table is barely larger than a folding tray table, with hardly enough room for the Diskos, Chalice, candles, Lance, cruets and Aers. Typically, one or more women of the parish bake a number of prosphorae in advance, most of which are frozen. Each prosphora weighs about a pound and has two Lambs. Half a loaf is used at each of the two Sunday Liturgies (I know, I know). Another is used for the two or three weekday liturgies.

As there is no room at the Proskomide to cut up the prosphora into particle, typically the Lamb and a portion of the prosphora beneath it are left intact, and the remaining half of the loaf is cut up into particles for communion in the sacristy, just prior to the Proskomide. The Lamb and the underlying prosphora are used in the Rite of Preparation, the Lamb being placed on the Diskos and broken at the Fraction, the underlying bread used for the particles of the commemorations, and the pre-cut pieces added to provide enough particles for the communicants. Only a few particles are reserved (outside of Lent), and these are used for visits to the sick and shut-in, and for emergencies.

While this is hardly ideal practice, it does seem the most reasonable, given the physical layout of the sanctuary (the building itself was never intended to be the church), the small size of the Proskomide, and the large number of communicants.

I also note that there seems to be two different types of prosphora used in Ruthenian churches. Most seem to prefer one large loaf, according to the Greek usage, a few prefer to use the five smaller loaves of the Russian usage. Each has its defenders. Symbolically, it would seem to me that the single large loaf broken and shared is closer to the original intent, but I have no idea which usage is older.

Thanks, Stuart, for the explanation of your parish's practice.

I've visited various Orthodox liturgical celebrations over the years (some in "postage stamp" size locations) and never once have I seen them resort to pre-cut pieces.

My personal thought is it's all in how one views things. If a celebrant views this as important, then the celebrant will find a way to follow the traditional usage of prosphora and avoid the use of pre-cut pieces.

Having said that, I'm beginning to doubt that the Ruthenian practice of pre-cut pieces will ever die out until our Bishops ban it.

Stuart , please forgive my ignorance.

You said
Could you please explain that ?

I always understood there was but one Lamb

Well, there should be. I imagine it is for the sake of convenience. The prospora looks like an ordinary loaf of bread, roughly rectangular, with a Lamb on top near each end. The prosphora is cut in half, and one half is used at each Liturgy. As each Liturgy requires a Lamb, one loaf covers both the Liturgies on Sunday.

On the other hand, in most Orthodox parishes, relatively few people receive communion in a given Sunday, so it is usually possible for everybody to receive using just the commemorative particles, the rest of the prosphora being cut up for antidoron. In the case of parishes using the Slavic five loaf Proskomide, one loaf provides the Lamb and some of the commemorative particles, the other four loaves provide some of the commemorative particles, but after that, the loaves are available for antidoron. In parishes using a single prosphora, after excising the Lamb and placing the commemorative particles on the diskos, additional particle may not be needed.

Consider, on the other hand, how much space would be needed to cut up the prosphora if one or two hundred people were receiving at one time (generally only the case in the larger churches at Pascha.

I have also noticed that even the smallest Orthodox churches (some of the ones I visited in Eastern Europe were barely 25 x 25 feet) all seem to have fairly large preparation tables--or at least larger than the one in Epiphany. Now, it is more than likely that the table at Epiphany was sized taking into consideration the use of pre-cut particles, but that merely shows how past abuses can create conditions that make rectifying them difficult.

Out here in the West many Orthodox parishes have frequent Communion. From what I've been told if there are a number of expected communicants a very large Lamb is used. On the new ACROD site, there's a video of the dedication liturgy of the the new youth chapel with hundreds of people attending. The Lamb in that video was HUGE!

From what I've been told, many ACROD parishes had inherited the pre-cut practice as part of the latinizations they garnered as part of the Ruthenian Church. I understand they've basically eliminated the practice. Perhaps it's time for us to do so too?

True. But, isn't this something we should aim at restoring?

Without a doubt. However, the Ruthenian Church has far more serious liturgical problems right now.


Certainly. But one ought to prioritize, no? At present, the Ruthenian Church is groaning under the weight of a bowdlerized Divine Liturgy and unsingable music. These affect the faithful directly, whereas ninety-nine percent of them have no idea what goes on during the Proskomide, or what is supposed to go on.

I would not put the cart before the horse, but would make restoration of the Rite of Preparation an integral part of the reform of the Ruthenian Liturgy--meaning nothing less than full implementation of the Ruthenian Recension and the Ordo Celebrationis, the restoration of Orthros and Vespers, and a more full and effective translation of the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.

There is certainly a great deal of work to be done, but somehow or other, the use of pre-cut particles, explicitly condemned by the Holy See on a number of occasions, was never high on the hierarchies List of Things to Do. Nor were many of the other reforms mandated by the Holy See. Taft pretty much covered all of these in "Liturgy in the Life of the Church".