|
1 members (EastCatholic),
330
guests, and
113
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,523
Posts417,632
Members6,176
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 1
Administrator Member
|
|
Administrator Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 1 |
US Lutheran split over gay clergy
By Robert Pigott
BBC News religious affairs correspondent
Traditionalist US Lutherans have warned they might leave to form another denomination after their Church voted to allow gay people to act as pastors.
Delegates voted on Friday to allow people in life-long monogamous gay relationships to become ministers.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (Ecla) is one of the largest to open the role to gay men and women.
The decision comes a month after the Anglican Church in the US voted to allow the ordination of gay bishops.
Delegates in tears
Two-thirds of delegates voted in favour of the change at the Lutheran Church's national assembly in Minneapolis on Friday.
It followed impassioned argument about whether or not the Bible forbids active homosexuality, and left a number of delegates in tears.
Some traditionalist clergy told the assembly they would leave the Church, and predicted an outflow of Lutherans to join other churches or create their own denomination.
The decision by the 4.5-million strong Lutheran Church is significant because of its position roughly in the middle of Protestant theology, and it will add to a sense of momentum towards a more liberal approach to homosexuality among American churches.
Other Protestant denominations - including the Presbyterian Church - have recently opted not to take a similar step, but by a narrower margin than before.
Anglicans who have left the Episcopal Church because it ordained a gay bishop have formed a rival traditionalist Church. [ news.bbc.co.uk]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10 |
How sad when we twist and rationalize sin in order to suit our fancy...
We individuals probably, to one degree or another, do it all the time, but when the leadership of Christian churches do it, then it is truly a cause for tears. Lord have mercy!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441 Likes: 5
Cantor Member
|
|
Cantor Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,441 Likes: 5 |
How sad when we twist and rationalize sin in order to suit our fancy...
We individuals probably, to one degree or another, do it all the time, but when the leadership of Christian churches do it, then it is truly a cause for tears. Lord have mercy! Well said!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,724 Likes: 2
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,724 Likes: 2 |
As the Missouri Synod folks say in this area, "Are you talking about ELCA, or Lutherans?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930 |
Think Martin Luther is 'squirming' in his grave?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,595 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,595 Likes: 1 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787 |
Think Martin Luther is 'squirming' in his grave? He is squirming somewhere. But who does he have to thank for this but himself? He championed "private interpretation" of the Bible and rejected Church interpretation. This is the logical outcome of Protestant principles. Fr David Straut (Who is unlikely to win the 'Ecumenist of the Year Award' any time soon.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978 |
He championed "private interpretation" of the Bible and rejected Church interpretation. This is the logical outcome of Protestant principles. Very sad, but also very true.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 275
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 275 |
I heard that there are about 25000 protestant congregations (whether in the US or around the world - I forgot). From the time of Martin Luther's 95 theses (that's 1517 AD or so) that makes about one new congregation every week. So it's really no big news that the Protestants are splitting 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,524 Likes: 26
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,524 Likes: 26 |
As the Missouri Synod folks say in this area, "Are you talking about ELCA, or Lutherans?" The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS) and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) are rightly frustrated by all the headlines referring generically to "Lutherans". They are unfairly tarnished by the schismatic actions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). I am heartbroken by the actions and hubris of this Assembly; an assembly that is comprise of 2/3 laity, 1/3 clergy, all in one chamber, with the Bishops having no distict voice. The Bishops must quie up at the microphones like everyone else--egalitarianism run amok. And fully half of those "voting members" had never been to such an Assembly before! No wonder they were so easily manipulated by emotion-charged anecdotes about peoples' wonderful gay friends. This Assembly has voted to jettison two millenia of Scripturally based Christian sexual ethics in favor of blessing "lifelong, committed" (whatever "committed" means) same-sex unions; to permit ministerial candidates in such unions to be Ordained; to develop a liturgical rite for blessings such unions; and to create a liturgical rite for blessing Divorce! Now, perhaps, you will understand why I chose the screen name that appears. I seek the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church; the very Church from which the ELCA has chosen to sever itself.
Last edited by Thomas the Seeker; 08/24/09 08:43 PM. Reason: clarity
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54 |
As a former Lutheran (ELCA) I am deeply saddened by what is happening to the church to which many of my friends belong. And, as expected, the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods raise their haughty heads and give a little snicker at the fate of their brothers and sisters. By the way, why are there so many different Lutherans???
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,524 Likes: 26
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,524 Likes: 26 |
ALLEN,
The short answer as to why there are so many different Lutherans may surprise you:
There really are only a small fraction of the dozens of Lutheran bodies that existed in the USA in the early 20th Century. Most of those were based on ethnic lines (Norwegian or Haugian; Swedish; and Suomi [Finnish]); gradually they began to coalesce into either the General Synod or the General Council.
As to the present scene: The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod began as a personality cult led by Pr. Martin Steffan, who was later dismissed for sexual misconduct. That is the ugly truth. The LCMS mythology is that Steffan's group of mid 19th century Germans found the existing Lutheran congregations too liberal. In part, this was because they had fled the Prussian Union (the King of Prussia had forced an almagamation of the Lutherans and Zwinglians--now, of course, the ELCA has declared to be in "full communion" with the Zwinglians spiritual descendants--go figure).
The Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Wisconsin considers the LCMS to be too liberal.
Three main Lutheran bodies is a vast reduction from the dozens that existed in 1900.
Last edited by Thomas the Seeker; 08/24/09 10:13 PM. Reason: spelling
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54 |
Thomas....
I appreciate your note...thanks, I guess I was trying to be a bit sarcastic when I asked why there are so many Lutherans...in other words...can they not see they do not have the unity that Our Lord Jesus Christ wanted for His church? Thomas, all we can do as fellow Christians is pray that they find the Way, Truth and the Life of Christ in the Catholic Church.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978 |
Thomas,
I was also a seeker just like you. I was a member of the Episcopal Church, which sadly is in the same boat as the ELCA. I found all the division to be a real eye opener to my own protestant (all thought high-church anglican) ideals of what the Church is. It lead me to the Eastern Church (first as an Orthodox Christian then as an Eastern Catholic/Orthodox in Communion with Rome). I pray God enlightens you to the truth of His Church.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
One point to keep in mind is that US Lutherans and Canadian Lutherans accepted episcopacy relatively recently and relatively reluctantly; there had been strong resistance to episcopacy for a long time.
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
|
|
