www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Byzantine Catholics Returning to Prosphora Traditions?

I've got some pretty large bread pans myself, but what I don't have is a seal that would make a Lamb capable of feeding the multitudes. The largest one I have ever seen was about three inches in diameter, and assuming that when you cut it out of the prosphora it would be about one inch thick, it would be 28.3 cubic inches of bread, of which about 14 cubic inches could be used for communion of the faithful (two of the four quadrants of the Lamb).

That in turn would yield about 28 particles, if each particle was 1/2 x 1 x 1 inch, or 56 particles if they were 1/2 x 1/2 x 1 inch. So, I guess it could be done if your congregation was small and you were careful about the cutting. Simply breaking the Lamb into pieces by hand probably would not be practical.

Father,

There is the rub as they say. I would guess most, perhaps all Orthodox priests do not intend to consecrate the commemoration particles. On the otherhand, I would guess the majority of Greek Catholic priests do intend to consecrate the commemoration particles.

I would also note the Ruthenian Liturgicon, which is based on older manuscripts than the Nikonian or Greek editions, simply calls for all the particles to be placed in the chalice before the Communion of the laity without any of the prayers you mention.

Fr. Deacon Lance

[Linked Image]

Lambs can be quite large. The Lamb that's in the dedication liturgy video of the Church Camp on the new ACROD website is HUGE. With a very large Lamb I would think one could serve 150 to 200 people easily, perhaps more.

Stuart:

There are some pictures on the Moscow Patriarchate website of different Divine Liturgies where the Lamb on the diskos appears to be about six inches or more square and four or more inches thick. There are also some pictures of very large single Lambs on this forum when the discussion of large chalices came up. The picture I've found with the following link shows an even greater Lamb together with a huge chalice--the title of the thread.

BOB

link

I guess I was not clear in my previous post which had this link:


The Gifted Pan [thegiftedpan.com]


the seal is actually forged into the bottom of the pan.

Or like this one?

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

[Linked Image]

Father Anthony,
How do you put the IC consecrated particle into the chalice if it is that size? Have you ever celebrated a liturgy for which such a large agnetz was used? And how many communions do you estimate can be made from this Lamb?
Ray

This is the image that Father Deacon John was referring to. I have seen these demonstrated at our last clergy-laity congress.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

http://www.thegiftedpan.com/images/600_gifted-pan-photoshop.gif

Nope, but my guess is that the IC portion is cut for several chalices, and the large chalice is also divided into smaller chalices that will then be used to commune the multitudes. Looking at that lamb, I would estimate at least 1000+ communicants could receive from it.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Some years ago I saw a picture of a prosphora stamp in a religious catalog that was large enough to allowe for five Lamb seals--in the form of a cross--and four additional partial stamps in the corners all within one circle. But I haven't seen anything like it advertised recently.

BOB

Isn't that like cheating? The whole art is in stamping out the Lamb separately, then getting it to adhere to the top of the prosphoron so it does not fall off after it is baked.

As someone would undoubtedly say, "Were they having seals forged into bottom of pan in 19th century Russia? No, they were not! Is outrage!"

Though I do admire the ingenuity of the inventor--he saw a need and he answered it.

So, now that we know it is possible to distribute communion from one Lamb, other than clerical laziness and veneration of Our Lady of Convenience, just why do so many Greek Catholic clergy persist in not doing it right?

Another question:

What can be done to help restore the authentic prosphora tradition in Byzantine Catholic parishes?

Our Lady of the Latinized Byzantine Catholic is Catholic Roman rite hosts are pre-cut lets do the same thing Proskimidia?

There is absolutely no excuse for it, and it needs to be abolished. To continue do so is just a case of never ending Latinization.

Stuart-

She actually saw a need (the inventor was a woman.) Give credit to whom credit is due.