www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Diaconal admonition and its response at the Anaphora

Just another reference for someone who agrees that "Mercy, peace,..." is correct.

"Mercy, peace . . ." is undoubtedly correct. But "Let us be attentive to offer the Holy Anaphora in peace" is just lame--an attempt to look erudite by NOT translating "anaphora", when, of course, "oblation" is the correct word in this context. Of course, the "translators" might deliberately have gone that route as a way of justifying mandatory audible chanting of the Anaphora prayers (something of which I approve), or perhaps they wanted to downplay the sacrificial aspect of the Anaphora--or maybe this was one of those times when they decided to be obscure for the heck of it.

If he 'agrees that "Mercy, peace,..." is correct' then why does he change it? He says that his version Why the "and"?

Probably because "Mercy, peace" is extremely awkward English. The difference between "Mercy, peace" and "Mercy and peace" is insignificant to nonexistent, but much easier on the ears, also has more syllables with which to play, making musical arrangements easier.

These are good reasons NOT to render it "Mercy and peace." "Mercy, peace" is hardly "extremely awkward English." I doubt it is any harder on the English ear than the Greek . I don't find it even just "awkward," but no doubt there are those who would characterize the most elegant poetry as "awkward." I believe a translator should follow the text and the translation be "as literal as possible, as free as necessary" to use the dictum of the RSV preface. If the source word or phrase presents an enigma or a paradox, the translator should convey the enigma and paradox and not presume to explain it away in a manner that HE thinks makes sense. What one then gets is the translator and not the translation.

What you guys need is for somebody to sit down and develop a standardized Liturgical English. Until then, Mилост Mира works for me.

Alexandr

Except that's not the original Slavonic, either.

What "original Slavonic" source are you referring to? What do you mean "either"? Based on Greek texts, "Mercy of peace" has as good a claim as any, a better claim than most, and as I have discussed and argued in prior posts in this thread, actually the best claim of all as an explicit and complete pristine reading.

Rome's Greek text and Slavonic -- both Vulgate and Ruthenian -- Recension texts have the genitive form mercy OF peace. Were the RDL translators correct then, acting within the scope of their mandate, to delve into textual criticism concerns in rendering a translation that explicitly changes the unambiguous wording of the received text?

Well, as I also look in the Russian Orthodox DL Book, in comparison, even though the Slavonic is a bit tough to make out since it's in a very ancient form of Cyrillic Alphabet, but the ROC version in English is "A mercy of peace, a sacrifice of praise." Although even with the Ancient Cyrillic, I could tell the "Milost' Mira" before everything else.