www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Will Patriarch Lubomyr Be At Conclave?

So, there ARE cardinals that are of a different color!

During the "preparatory" proceedings before the Conclave proper, all Cardinals (electors and non-electors) are enjoined to attend and participate, except for serious illness or grave legal impediment.

Patriarchs who are not created Cardinals are not members of the College of Cardinals and, therefore, they are not allowed to participate in any of the proceedings. They may go to Rome as guests.

Major-Archbishop Husar, from Rome's point of view, is a Cardinal and not a Patriarch. (Cf. RISU news report above.)

In the Roman Church, the Cardinals enjoy the highest in dignity next to the Pope.

However, in the order of precedence, Cardinal Husar belongs to the Order of Cardinal Priests and, within this order, he processes based on the date of his creation as Cardinal by the Pope.

Amado

Major Archbishop-Patriarch Husar was wearing red.He was wearind a scarlet red kopak and not the white kopak and veil that Maj.-Archbishop Patriarch Slipyj used to wear when he was in Rome!

Ung-Certez

Ung-Certez,

I did't see the kolpak. Was it cardinal red or the deep red one he usually wears? The first time I saw him on TV this week he had cowl and mandyas on, the next just a kamlivaka without veil and riassa.

I have seen pictures with Patriarch Josef in a red koukoulion, riassa, and pilgrims hat (which they don't use anymore). They are in an anniversary book for his 50 th year ordained or something along those lines. SS. Cyril and Methodius Seminary has a copy in the library.

Fr. Deacon Lance

It was scarlet (cardinal) red and in the Uniate style and not the Greek style. He should really wear the kopak and white veil.


Ung-Certez

Wow, Vladyka Lubomyr is truly a man of many hats: kolpak, kamilavka, Greek skufos, Romanian skufia...

As Jesus said in Matthew 7:16, "You will know them by their hats."

At least that is what it says in my NVT-OE (New Vostochnik Translation - Orthodox Edition).

Dave

Ung,

Any kolpak would be "Uniate" style. :p

You probably mean "KLOBUK and white veil."

Then again, I have heard of one or two bishops wearing a kolpak with monastic veil.

Dave

Chtec,

You are right. I stand corrected. Kneeling during
our Pascha is prohibited!

Ung-Certez

Dear Deacon Lance,

What is the cowl here?

Thanks!

Tony

Tony,

The ancient cowl as depicted in icons of monastics like St. Cyril. I guess it would be analogous to the cowl of the Great Schema, but without the instruments of the Passion on it. I also remember him in it at the consistory at which he was made a cardinal. I don't know if this is what all the Ukrainian Studites wear or just Archbishop Lubomyr because he was protoarchimandrite of the Ukrainian Studites.

In fact, I have seen him wear cowl, kolpak, and kamilavka, but never the klobuk and veil.

Fr. Deacon Lance

From catholic.net quoting zenit.org-

Joaquin Navarro Valls - "The funeral liturgy will be celebrated by the cardinals and patriarchs of the Eastern Churches. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, dean of the College of Cardinals, will preside," Navarro Valls said in a press statement.

Has anyone heard if the Pittsburgh Archeparchy is celberating a special Divine Liturgy in honor of the Holy Father? The local news has reported that the Latin Dioceses of Pittsburgh and Greensburg are having Masses in honor of the Holy Father, but I have heard nothing about the Byzantine Church. Any information would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Just for the record, there is an authentic photograph showing the present Patriarch Lubomyr wearing a klobuk (black). The occasion was a meeting of Aid to the Church in Need, which the then-Bishop Lubomyr addressed, I think on behalf of Patriarch Joseph, and the photograph appeared in The Mirror.

Incognitus

Deacon Lance wrote :

> The ancient cowl as depicted in icons of
> monastics like St. Cyril. I guess it would be
> analogous to the cowl of the Great Schema, but
> without the instruments of the Passion on it.

The "ancient cowl as depicted ..." IS the cowl of the Great Schema. In St. Cyril's day, the Little Schema hadn't been invented yet and what we now call the "Great Schema" was simply called the "Schema".

Putting the instruments of the Passion on the veil is a custom of the Northern Slavs*. In the Greek Church, the only thing that distinguishes the veil of a monk in the Great Schema is a tiny red cross.

The cowl underneath the veil generally gave way to entirely different style hat, the kamilavka. However, Northern Slavs* still use the older style with the Great Schema (and something like it is worn by the Patriarch of Moscow). Note that the hat itself is not part of the habit, but that only the veil is. When tonsuring a monk or nun, the hat (kamilavka or cowl) is put on with the veil, but it is the veil that is blessed. Note that among the Northern Slavs* that the veil is attached to the hat (usually, nowadays, with a band of elastic), but Greeks do not so do, and monks often simply remove the veil to get a kamilavka, but a Northern Slavic* monk would own a whole different hat; also, Greek monks, in Church, often remove the veil and drape it around their necks to facilitate vision when, say, lighting candles.

Photius


* By "Northern Slavs" I mean those who are, or whose ancestors were, part of the Churches of Kiev or Moscow; put another way, Slavs of the Byzantine Rite who are not part of the Churches of Serbia or Bulgaria. Hitherto, there customs were generally known as "Russian", but use of that term appears to have angered a Ukrainian nationalist elsewhere on this forum, so I, an ethnic Greek, am coining a politically correct, albeit perhaps confusing, term because methinks we have more serious things to discuss than nationalism.