www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Archbishop Pezzi Says Catholic-Orthodox Reunion Could Come Soon

Getting back on topic and Archbp Pezzi's amazing statement.... is it possible that Rome has made sufficient concessions on papal primacy that Moscow and Constantinople, Jerusalem and Antioch, Serbia and Bulgaria, etc., have accepted them as sufficient to enter into union within a few months. Is this feasible?

Since no other statement or document corroborating his claims has appeared, from either side, I don't see how it can be. And the issue of papal primacy is just one of many problems. Aside from the usual dogmatic disagreements, the Vatican's novel ecclesiology of "subsistence," which allows heretics to possess apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, is nonsensical from an Orthodox standpoint.

I didn't see anywhere in Archbishop Pezzi's statement where he said full communion would be restored within months. Read more closely, and do not superimpose other meanings on his words.

Or perhaps it is the Orthodox patriarchs, acknowledge the unambiguous expressions of St Maximos the Confessor concerning unity with the church of Rome, who have made sufficient concessions. Or perhaps we need to end the polemics and get down to the business of unity.

Originally Posted by StuartK

I didn't see anywhere in Archbishop Pezzi's statement where he said full communion would be restored within months. Read more closely, and do not superimpose other meanings on his words.

"Here is the article:

Article by Edward Pentin of the National Catholic Register


"The Catholic Archbishop of Moscow has given a remarkably upbeat assessment of relations with the Orthodox Church, saying unity between Catholics and Orthodox could be achieved “within a few months.”

[i]In an interview today in Italy’s Corriere della Sera newspaper, Archbishop Paolo Pezzi said the miracle of reunification “is possible, indeed it has never been so close.” The archbishop added that Catholic-Orthodox reunification, the end of the historic schism that has divided them for a millennium, and spiritual communion between the two churches “could happen soon, within a few months.”

“Basically we were united for a thousand years,” Archbishop Pezzi said. “Then for another thousand we were divided. Now the path to rapprochement is at its peak, and the third millennium of the Church could begin as a sign of unity.” He said there were “no formal obstacles” but that “everything depends on a real desire for communion.”
[/i]

Hello Stuart:

The word could and and would makes the difference, Frankly I think pink pigs will fly before we see this one happen but then that is my human reaction. I do hope and pray that it works out.

In Christ:
Einar

Utroque,

This is the kind of thing I hope to see explored in greater depth as part of the preparation for the next meeting of the Catholic-Orthodox Commission. There is no need simply to re-iterate each side's current position, since each side already knows the other's position and rejects it.

However, there is a need to collect such statements as this--both from Church Fathers and from other First Millennium sources--and evaluate them carefully in terms of their context. This alone can produce the kind of historical framework necessary to rightly re-evaluate the positions of both Churches.

Without this, we've got nothing more than the all-too-familiar "... am too! ... are not! ... am too! ... are not! ..."


And let us pray that we can get to a point where it becomes clear that unity is indeed God's will.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

How many bishops were present at Constantinople I? And of those, how many were from the Church of Rome? Of the early Councils, how many came right out and said, "This is an ecumenical council, and what we say is binding for all ages"? Reception, not any set of a priori criteria, determine ecumenicity.

Isn't that what Ravenna said?

Yup. And it's true--the history of the Roman Church proves it. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but no one is entitled to his own facts--not even the Pope.

I cannot conceive that he means that we should be united but without enjoying full communion.

Orthodoxy knows of no unity without communion and it has no concept of partial communion. This would simply not chime with the teaching of the Eucharist as creating the unity of the Church.

"The Catholic Archbishop of Moscow has given a remarkably upbeat assessment of relations with the Orthodox Church, saying unity between Catholics and Orthodox could be achieved “within a few months.”"

Again, I say, he did not indicate that this would happen, only that it could happen. And he did not say that this unity would take the form of formal ecclesial communion. There could very well be intermediate steps, of which some sort of communicatio in sacris between the Orthodox and Greek Catholics in Ukraine seems the most likely (it's largely happening, anyway). The article does not quote Archbishop Pezzi, but summarizes his remarks. I have learned to be extremely cautious when journalists do this, especially when their interpretation has to be translated two or three times before reaching their audience.

I agree. Without assurance that these are the words which Archbp Pezzi used this thread is bad stewardship of our time.

The National Catholic Register has since posted a follow-up article, ancillary to the first. It is also very interesting:

"Archbishop Hilarion at Sant’Egidio"

Artilce by Edward Pentin

Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:19 PM


Archbishop Paolo Pezzi of Moscow may have gotten a little ahead of himself in his comments on Catholic-Orthodox unity, given in a recent interview which we reported on here. However, his hopeful tone, and his conviction that progress is being made towards unity, are well founded.

The Vatican is taking a more measured line than the Catholic archbishop of Moscow, and is stressing that, as well as resolving outstanding theological problems, plenty of trust still needs to be built up between the two Churches before unity can be considered. However, it concedes that clear progress is being made.

If proof were needed of this improvement, one need look no further than a speech given by Archbishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk, effectively the Russian Orthodox Church’s foreign minister, at this evening’s prayers at the Sant’Egidio community in Rome.

Archbishop Hilarion, 43, is on a five-day visit to Rome, and will be received by Pope Benedict XVI tomorrow in private audience. Like Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, he is new to his position, and also in common with the patriarch, he has many built up many friends in Rome thanks to his previous position (Archbishop Hilarion was formerly the Russian Orthodox Church’s representative to Europe and took over from Kirill the role of “foreign minister” following Kirill’s election this year as Patriarch).

Below is the speech Archbishop Hilarion gave this evening in flawless Italian. Note I didn’t have the official text, so this is a rough translation. I’ve highlighted the parts in bold which I thought were particularly poignant.

Dear brothers and sisters of the community of Sant’Egidio,

It is with great joy that I have come this evening to be among you.

I am happy to be close to you once again and especially to see you once again, my friends Professor Andrea Riccardi and Bishop Vincenzo Paglia. I greet with joy the bishops who are present and I greet with love all of you who have come tonight to this church. Through you I would like to greet the whole community of Sant’Egidio throughout the world.

I would like to transmit to you the blessings and greetings of His Holiness, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow. In his name, and also from myself and all of us who are present with you, I would like to tell you of the esteem and love that we have for your community. We esteem your love towards the poor, we treasure your work towards them and also those in need; the actions that you do in this city and in other cities to give food to the homeless, and the care which all the community of Sant’Egidio has for those who are on the margins of society.

With this commitment of yours, with this Christian ministry towards the poor, you practice the Gospel. In life, man suffers, and it’s here you find the face of the Lord. Through serving all the poor, you serve Him who said that what you do to each of my little brothers, you do to me.

We have great admiration for your contribution to dialogue, especially that between Christians those of different religions. And we are especially pleased and happy with the relationship of understanding and mutual esteem that has been established between your community and our Russian Orthodox Church.

We live in a de-Christianized world, in a time that some define—mistakenly—as post-Christian. Contemporary society, with its practical materialism and moral relativism, is a challenge to us all. The future of humanity depends on our response, as Christians, to this challenge, and maybe even whether life continues on our planet. It is a common challenge and also our answer must be common. Only together can we put forward all the spiritual and moral value of the Christian faith; only together can we offer our Christian vision for the family, only together can we affirm our concept of social justice, of a more equal distribution of goods.

These moral values are traditional because they have been affirmed by Christians for 20 centuries and have formed our cultural and European civilization. They are, at the same time, very new and modern, because the Gospel of Jesus is eternally new and modern. With this common challenge, the contemporary world challenges us, and we Christians must be together. It’s time to pass from confrontation to solidarity, mutual respect, and esteem. I would say without hesitating that we must pass to mutual love, living out Jesus’s commandment to love one another. As Jesus said, all will know you are disciples of mine if you have love for the other. This is what our preaching demands and it can be effective, it can be convincing, also in our contemporary world, if we are able to live this mutual love among us as Christians.

With these sentiments, I thank you once again for having invited us and I repeat to you my joy of being here tonight. And in order to express concretely our fraternal love for all the community of Sant’Egidio, I would like to give you this Russian icon of Our Lady.

I pray to the Mother of God to bless you all, and to protect and support you always in your commitment to love the Lord, serving every neighbor, and especially the poor and the disadvantaged.

Coming from a representative of the Moscow Patriarchate, this is positively gushy.

This is not new. The same sentiments -collaboration in bringing relief to the needy and collaboration in preserving Christian values as the basis of European civilisation- have been presented in statements by the Russian Orthodox Church to the Church of Rome since only a few days after Pope Benedict's installation. What many of us are waiting to see, four years later, is in what practical ways this proposed collaboration will be expressed?