www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Christian and Muslim clerics stand tall as brothers for a common cause

From the Daily Star:

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Christian, Muslim clergy stand together against war Brought together by America's conceit'
Samer Wehbi
Daily Star correspondent

More than 200 clerics on Saturday condemned the US-British invasion of Iraq and the recent threats made against Lebanon, Syria and Iran.

The clerics, who had assembled at Martyrs Hall at the former Khiam detention camp, called for learning from the lesson set by the Lebanese resistance, which force the Israeli withdrawal in May 2000.

"The United States has started a war against the entire area, starting with Iraq. But Washington says that the next phases will be against Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Iran, Hizbullah's commander for the South, Sheikh Nabil Qaouk, said in an address.

He added that by igniting wars and seeking them all around the world, the Americans epresented a threat to all religions and mankind.

"Christians and Muslims were brought together on the same road by America's conceit and Washington's determination to impose its hegemony, in a manner prohibiting US President George W. Bush from hiding behind scripture and the Christian religion," Qaouk said.

He added that "the war against Iraq was, in effect, a war against Hizbullah, Lebanon, Syria and this entire part of the world. We now regard ourselves as engaged in an openly-declared military confrontation against the United States, which has assembled armies and fleets believing it can scare the Arab people."

He added that Lebanon's Christians and Muslims were united in trying to help the Iraqi resistance.

Qaouk said that the this area is a resistance arena, which rejected US and Israeli hegemony and imperialism.

Another speaker, the mufti of Marjayoun and Khiam, Sheikh Hussein Abdullah, called on clerics and believers from all religions to rally in opposing the oppressors.

"The prophets want us to work together. And Iraq, throughout history, has opposed imperialism as Jesus Christ resisted the imperialism of kings and oppressors. The Prophet Mohammed was also opposed to the Persians and the Greeks and rejected the spread of immorality.

A Druze cleric, Sheikh Fandi Shujaa, described the US-led invasion as a "genuine bloody and terrorist coup." He called not only for condemning the aggression but also "fighting it."

The Orthodox bishop of Tyre, Elias Kfoury, condemned the aggression "from an industrialized country, such as the United States, which has always pretended to respect democratic principles.

Separately, Kfoury on Sunday called for supporting Iraq in a special prayer service at Sidon's 300-year-old Saint Nicolas Orthodox Cathedral.

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Nothing in the article about the Ayatollah in Iraq issuing a fatwa to all Muslims to step aside and cooperate with the Coalition forces.

Why was this particular fatwa issued from WITHIN Iraq ignored by those OUTSIDE Iraq?

After all this is past, maybe our concerned Christian and Muslim clerics will address and pray over the persecuation of African Christians?

NOT!

Dear Cantor Joseph,

Probably not unless it can be shown that the U.S. is somehow involved in the persecutions . . .

Alex

Hating the U.S. is politically correct in the Mid-East.

In the Middle East when a TV camera appears the protesters gather
with their "Hate the USA" signs, burn the US flag, then
burn an effigy of G.W. Bush.

Next day Cousin "Jimmy" in Toledo sends one of the protesters
an airline ticket to America.

Next week the same protester owns and operates a dry
cleaners in your town.

Now the "protester" is a capitalist

These protesters are phonies.

Oh! I thought you were talking about U.S. citizens, but you did mention the "Mid-East."

Just goes to show that all philosophies are negotiable.

Yes. To many, only the U.S. can be an oppressor of Christians while hiding behind religion.

Please pray for those Christians suffering under the terror of intimidation, meddling, and control in the U.S. (No. I am not making comment about the degree of autonomy in Eastern Catholic 'sui juris' Churches)

Dear Cantor Joseph,

I suppose a case could be made for persecution of Christians in North America!

But instead of secret police and torture tactics, Christians are bullied by revisionists of church history, liberal media, and secularism posing as a "value-free" and morally neutral framework that will alone permit everyone to live freely here without having their personal feelings offended.

Father Groeschl on EWTN once preached on the Catholic Martyrs of Japan.

But he said the same could happen here, martyrdom of Christians could occur with Christianity being the sacrificial lamb on the altar of "true secular democracy."

And the Jordanville publication on the New Martyrs of Russia is dedicated to: "the New Martyrs of Russia yesterday and the New Martyrs of America tomorrow . . ."

Sobering stuff.

Alex

Hopefully, with the liberation of the Iraqi people by the United States, Great Britan and other nations, all of the cowards and pro-dictator types can finally disappear. Sometimes war is the only way to free people trapped and enslaved. Catholics and Orthodox, on a whole, should be ashamed by the way they dealt with this evil, as should Canada and many other nations. It took Protestant leaders like Bush and Blair to put down evil and free many Muslims, Catholics and Orthodox. Catholic and Orthodox church leaders should have supported this cause but failed us all. We have a lot to learn from our Protestant friends.

There is, in theology, something known as the 'principle of double intent' in which an evil is tolerated in order to obtain a "greater" good.

I am very happy that Saddam Hussein is on the run. And that the Iraqis may have the potential to be "free" insofar as this concept is realizible in a Mid-East community. But my suspicion is that there is more involved in this than just pure humanitarian benevolence and the desire to 'liberate' the Iraqis.

I am always being suspicious about $$$. The old proverb says: follow the money. In this case, I ask: who is going to profit from this in terms of money? I guess we'll have to wait and see in terms of stock market profit margins. We'll talk in 3 to 6 months. But my bet is: petroleum companies and petro-chemical enterprises will post significant profits. We'll see.

At any rate, I would also ask prayers for the ordinary folks in Iraq; whether Moslem, Christian, Druze, Bahai or Zoroastrian, may the Lord in His ultimate Mercy take all of them in His sheltering Hand and preserve them from both injury and death.

Lord, be merciful!!

Yes. This morning's news showed an Iraqi woman standing out of window of a car as it was driving by with a sign that was pro-American. She was waiving to the cameraperson and crossed herself in public. Can you imagine that?

I hope and pray that all persons of Iraq come to enjoy being free and taking on the responsibilities of maintaining that freedom. Freedom always carries a price.

And also past $$$. I agree with one Congressperson's proposition that the French should offer forgiveness loans to the Iraqi people in order to help in their reconstruction. This will reflect their true concern for the Iraqi people who may now be burdened with huge debts to French businesses.

I can appreciate Dr. John�s perspective but I disagree with it. Saddam Hussein was more than willing to sell the world all the oil they wanted at a cost that was far less than market rate. If the USA was willing to purchase it from a murderous dictator we could have had plenty of oil and kept gasoline costs about 50 cents/gallon less than it is now.

The petroleum companies almost always post significant profits. That�s because they are selling something that is in great demand.

I agree. We need to fast and pray and do good works for the peoples of Iraq.

I agree. BTW, it was Senator John McCain�s suggestion that the world forgive the debt.

My dear American Capitalist friends,

And what is wrong with Iraq developing a vibrant capitalist economy along U.S. lines that could benefit the man and woman in the street?

As for the U.S. being rich, we Canadians, for one, keep your economy in our prayers . . .

Alex

Dr. John:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I'm curious about the following statement:

"There is, in theology, something known as the 'principle of double intent' in which an evil is tolerated in order to obtain a 'greater' good."

Is it not called the principle of double effect? More importantly, however it is named, is this the traditional formulation -- the toleration of an evil for the sake of a greater good?

I suppose what worries me most is the idea of tolerating evil "in order to" obtain a greater good. Is it not less Machiavellian -- or, at least, less jesuitical -- to say that the principle of d.e. permits/enables us to pursue a good end even if that pursuit may have certain unintended bad consequences? "In order to" would appear to move us into that messy "end justifies means" realm.

Perhaps I'm just being nitpicky.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Alex:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

You asked: "And what is wrong with Iraq developing a vibrant capitalist economy along U.S. lines that could benefit the man and woman in the street?"

As the worst economic system except for all the rest, there is nothing wrong with free-market capitalism per se.

The problem with capitalism is when it takes over the society it is meant to serve. The result is a capitalist culture, in which all human relationships, communities, and other worthy non-economic pursuits are understood largely in economic terms: self-interest, maximization of "profit," efficiency, etc.

Thanks to the challenge of religion (see Tocqueville), the U.S. was able to avoid succumbing to the culture of capitalism for a long time. Unfortunately, I think we turned a corner about 50 years ago.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Dr John is a bit off here.

It is the Principle of Double Effect. Where Dr John has it wrong is that an evil action is never ok, even if the out come is good.

What the Principle of Double Effect says that if the intent is good, any side effects that maybe evil if they were the goal, are ok.

Such as ectopic pregencies or the use of birth control pills in controling a woman's cycle.

In both causes, the intented effect, the saving of the woman's life by removing the flopian tube or the controling of a woman's cycle, are good. The unintended effect, the ending of the pregency or the birth control aspect of the pill, while evil if they were intended, are ok as they were not the planned result.

I believe that the Catechism of the Catholic Church says it best, so here you go....

Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 4, SubSection 1
1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one's neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving). 39

Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 4, SubSection 1
1754 The circumstances, including the consequences, are secondary elements of a moral act. They contribute to increasing or diminishing the moral goodness or evil of human acts (for example, the amount of a theft). They can also diminish or increase the agent's responsibility (such as acting out of a fear of death). Circumstances of themselves cannot change the moral quality of acts themselves; they can make neither good nor right an action that is in itself evil.

Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 4, SubSection 2
1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting "in order to be seen by men").


David