www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Old-Ritualists Forum Old Believers on Petroleum and on English Language

Bless Father!

Yes, I was referring to the Belaya Krinitsa concorde. I don't really know many people abroad from the jurisdiction, though no doubt we may have common contacts if you know people here in Australia. I was raised in the Sydney dioscese and currently reside in Melbourne so attend the church under Father Pavel when I have a chance. Regrettably I travel extensively throughout Australia with work and do not often get to church - and probably go in Sydney (with Father Timofei) more often on big Holy days as all my family live there.

I tend to travel to Europe once or twice a year. I was there for Christmas this year (Jan). My next trip will be in November, though only for a week in Rome. I am planning to get to a Russian Church whilst there if I can. Next time I am in the UK (my father's family if from the Midlands) I will undoubtedly try to get into Ireland and learn more about Ancient Orthodoxy on the British Isles. I am quite interested in St Fursey as my father spent his teen years at Burgh Castle.

I look forward to reading your finalised copy of the translation - that would be extremely interesting and not doubt generate much interest on these forums.

Yours,

Misha

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners.

The Blessing of the Lord!

Dear Misha,

Despite living in Ireland, I don't know any Old-Ritualists in Western Europe (there are probably some remnants of the one-time parish in Paris, and I'm told there are some active communities in Italy). Yes, I was thinking of Australia.

Father Timothy (Sydney) is an admirable Priest. And his Church is of breath-taking beauty.

Getting in to Ireland from England is not difficult (I'm assuming that you hold an Australian passport), though you might be wise to ask the Irish Embassy in Canberra if you need to apply for a visa ahead of time (reciprocity, y'know).

If you are in Rome and looking for a church, might I suggest our Russian Church of Saint Anthony? It's on the square of Santa Maria Maggiore, just across from the Basilica of the same name as the square. You might also enjoy looking up Father Archimandrite Robert Taft at the Pontifical Oriental Institute - tell him you are a friend of mine and he will groan and roll out the red carpet. Don't let him fool you - despite his gruff manner he is in fact quite hospitable and generous to a fault.

With the help of your prayers, I hope to have my translation of the Divine Liturgy accomplished and ready for publication sometime next year.

For the sake of Christ, forgive me.

(Archimandrite) Serge and my Guardian Angel

Bless Father,

I am intruiged to hear there are still some communities in Italy. I have heard this mentioned now and again and find it surprising. I only wish I had known when I lived in Europe. It would have been only a small commute (from an Australian perspective anyway) to Italy. Unfortunately, even though I have travelled to Rumania a couple of times - I never made it to Braila/Belaya Krinitsa.

Yes, Father Timofei is a great priest. He baptised me many years ago as a new born - I think I was one of his first. Only 3 months ago he baptised my own God-son (Nephew) so the family tradition continues. Batushka has a respectable command of English, on par with my mother's I would imagine (incidently who is his wife's first cousin). Enough to go to the shops - fill up with petrol ( yes! as an old believer )but certainly not enough to conduct a service in the language. . . still I am confident that the next generation of priests will have no choice but to.

Travel to Ireland will not be too difficult for me. I have been there before - and I hold a British passport too (British Father)so rest assured some day I shall get there. . . though no doubt it will be a while. I am set on visiting South America next.

The Church in Sydney is absolutely stunning and often gets walk ins and people stopping their cars to take a photo - and I think that is just swell. Any way to promote awareness and understanding of the Old Rite, and Orthodoxy (and Christianity) in general is a good thing, says I.

I apologise to everyone as I think I have got somewhat off-topic. Still, it would be interesting to see how the Oriental Orthodox Churches - in particularly those of Ethiopia/India look at services in the English language. Could anyone here elaborate on that? I tend to feel that it is only those Slavophiles that seem intent on keeping the mother-tongue solely in the Church.

Thoughts?

Yours,

Misha

To answer the opening question, at least when I was considering joining an Old Ritualist community a couple of decades ago, there were actually men in the community who worked occasionally as roughnecks on oil drilling rigs, and thus at least for them there seemed to be no inherent conflict of conscience. They were not Pomorsky, however.

Regarding translations of the Old Ritualist liturgy and Horologion into English, I would also wholeheartedly recommend the excellent translations of Frs. Pimen, Theodore etc. from the Old Ritualist community in Erie, Pennsylvania.

Both the Old Orthodox Prayer Book and the Horologion published by the parish in Erie have serious merits. But the hieratic prayers which the Priest offers quietly during the Divine Liturgy are not given, and that is a serious lacuna - last time I had a chance I took a friend (who is himself a priest) to the Divine Liturgy in an Old-Ritualist Church and gave him the Old Orthodox Prayer Book to help him follow the Divine Liturgy. He assumed that the translation was complete, and was shocked at the notion of there being no Anaphora.

Fr. Serge

Michael,

An interesting question, altho off-topic for this particular subforum. I'd suggest you open a thread on it in the main Faith-Worship forum. We have a few folks who'd likely reply.

Many years,

Neil

PS - if you want info on the location of Old Ritualist communities in Italy, I believe that a friend of mine who is an Italian hieromonk of the Russian Orthodox Church can supply that info. PM me and I'll give you an e-mail address for him.

The Jordanville Prayer Book also omits these prayers.
The prayer books are for the people participating in the liturgy, and these anaphora prayers are not typically heard by the people. These books aren't not meant to fulfill the role of a complete service book... there are other services too in the book which are abridged in this way. Someone who wants all of the divine liturgy prayers can always grab a full liturgy book.

One of the many things I like about the Old Orthodox prayer book is the inclusion of the Akathist canon of St. Joseph. I wonder why other prayer books don't include this beautiful canon, which is a sort of preface to the Akathist to the Theotokos.

It is correct that the Jordanville Prayer-Book also does not include the so-called "secret prayers". But there is no shortage of English translations of the complete text of the Divine Liturgy, some of them in prayer books clearly intended for the faithful (and some of which are available at the monastery book store at Jordanville).

It is another matter to publish an otherwise excellent prayer book for a somewhat different version of the Divine Liturgy and leave these prayers out - with almost no allusion to their existence. At the moment, there is no English translation of the complete text of the Divine Liturgy available to the public. Even the text of the Liturgy in Church-Slavonic is available only if one is able to track down the source for such publications and is able to write one's order in Russian.

Fr. Serge

Fr. Serge