www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Romania:greek-catholics and orthodox in a difficult dialogue

Mr Putin is no Czar Martyr Nicholas, but his government is a vast improvement over what was. Imagine, a KGB Colonel becoming a true believing Christian. He had his road to Damascus moment. I trust Mr Putin far more than I trust Mr Obama in the US or any of the talking heads of Western Europe. Russia is well on it's way to the restoration of the Monarchy, the revival of the God pleasing and Christ appointed Czars, and the revival of the Holy Russian Empire. Then, once again, there will be a good government on the face of the Earth, even if only for a short time, as has been prophesized.

Alexandr

The damning bigotry of low expectations.

True, this is what we are experiencing in the good ol' USA.

The USA Government about the religious situation in Romania with many examples of the discrimination of greek-catholics:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108467.htm

The same USA Goverment who year after year gave Ceaucescu a clean bill of health on human rights (his allowing Protestants to emigrate being taken as proof), so as to continue "most favored trading status?" You mean that USA Government?

Hate speech: isn't that what many of the groups cited in the report support in the prosecution of clergy speaking against gay marriage?

One thing that seems missing from the report is that fact that poll after poll in Romania have found that the Romanian Orthodox Church remains the most trusted and respected public institution in the country. Patrirach Teoctist, for instance, single handedly and with a word stopped the liberalization of the divorce laws a while back. Perhaps that has something to do why politicians don't want to sponser bills that the ROC does not approve of.

This was rather interesting in this report:
"Romanian Orthodox Church authorities were often intolerant of other religious groups and repeatedly criticized the "aggressive proselytizing" of Protestant, neo-Protestant (Baptist, Pentecostal, Adventist, Romanian Evangelical, and Christian Evangelical churches), and other religious groups, which the Church repeatedly described as "sects." This led to physical and verbal conflicts in some cases. Some high-ranking Orthodox clergy criticized the "heresies" committed by Orthodox Metropolitan Nicolae Corneanu of Timis, who received the Eucharist together with Greek Catholics in May 2008, and Bishop Sofronie Drincec of Oradea, who blessed the water at Epiphany along with a Greek Catholic Bishop in January 2008. In January 2008 Orthodox Metropolitan Bartolomeu Anania of Cluj, Alba, Crisana, and Maramures told journalists that the major threat for the Orthodox Church is represented by "neo-Protestant sects" that buy believers. The Metropolitan also described their proselytizing as "spiritual corruption."

The bare allegation "This led to physical and verbal conflicts in some cases" is the only thing that could be an object of concern. It is not the US government's business to dictate to Romanian Orthodox Church on the standing of other religions any more than it could tell the Protestants to stop calling us pagans and idol worshippers, nor dispute their proselyzing as corruption or aggressive. And it is especially not the US government business to dictate disciple on the ROC own members like the Metropolitan of Timis and the Bishop of Oradea. The US government cannot do such things here, what makes them think they can in Romania?

People in Romania trust the CHURCH but no poll specify which one.The reports of USA about religious freedom are based only on facts.

The Lord will reward your love for the Truth

Shall I understand my beloved Holy Orthodox Church is a party? This is a high offense addressed to the Orthodox Church.

"I am the Way and the Truth and the Life..." said Lord Jesus Christ. Shall I understand I and my Orthodox brethren are not 'interested' in One Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God?

At a moment in the last century the history crashed those lands and many suffered. In the above posts truth was not said entirely. There were many martyrs, many and many thousands of souls perished in the communist gulags. Shall we say about percents, who were more Orthodox or not?

Very sad.

If a party member has a president, I surely know I have an Emperor.

What is happening in Romania happens in every country where the majority of the population belongs to one religion and this religion is seen as a sign of National identity.

In my country, we see these kind of reports everyday (that Evangelicals were expelled from their villages, that Catholics don't allow new converts to Islam to bury their men in their cemeteries, that a Protestant pastor was beated by a mob), and so on.

I do not worship in the modern Roman Catholic Church. However, I get very angry when I see these Protestant sects coming to my country, I take every opportunity to tell the followers of the Protestant religion that they have nothing to do in our country if they will not be faithful to our identity. However I would never support an act of violence against them (violent acts are the work of "village idiots" as someone pointed out).

Romanians are very nationalistic just as I am. They view the Greek Catholic Church (even though their members are Romanians) as a former tool of the Western powers, they stronly believe that their identity is Orthodox and that the 1948 union was necessary so that their National Church could be united again without the presence of Vatican agents. They see no need to have the united Church back in their country.

I support those Greek Catholics who believe their churches must be given back to them. I am also against the demolition of churches claimed by their faithful, this is not correct. However, in many villages and towns the majority of the people wishes to remain Orthodox and this means there is no longer a presence of the Greek Catholic Church. What would the Orthodox faithful do in this case? Convert to the Catholic Church against their wishes because a court ruled that their temple no longer belongs to the Orthodox? It's a very difficult situation.

By the way, the Ardeal (Western Romanian) rescension of the Byzantine Rite has some influences of the Gallican-Latin rite (prayers and songs refering to the Final Judgement are common during the Advent season there just as in the Gallican and Mozarabic traditions) which was probably celebrated in the region before the Byzantine Slavonic rite was fully adopted.

Yes, that statement can be offensive if seen as an indictment of all of Orthodoxy. In reading it I saw it as merely an indictment of some within Orthodoxy. Such people do exist in every Church - including both Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Unfortunately, such people do witness to the world a version of Orthodoxy (or Catholicism, or any Church) that is more political then religious. And they do leave a bad taste for anything Orthodox (or Catholic, etc.) in many people. It is always best to 1) provide a better witness and 2) correct those who provide a bad witness.

This is true.

Sad what happened in 1948, sad what happens now. And sad words and attitudes were written and expressed in this thread.

BRU is the Greek-Catholic Church in Romania and here [bru.ro] in the first paragraph BRU speaks of 'interconfesional hate'. Hate? It is very difficult to have a dialogue. Perhaps a dialogue between Vatican and BRU and the Orthodox Romanian Church can be more fruitful. God knows.

In Romania a high percent of people say they trust most in Church, Orthodox, Greek-Catholic, Catholic, Protestant.

But by fruits, I sincerely cannot say that the authentic religious living is too cultivated. Too much phariseism in all.

God's peace reign in all the universe, glory to the Most Holy Trinity, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amin.

An interesting contemporary source on what was going on in Austro-Hungary in 1914. That was sad too:
http://books.google.ro/books?id=IajPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=st+alexei+kabalyuk&source=bl&ots=9oGQXoEtFX&sig=KAVkyfF4uB-IBwtnO2AWYC337wI&hl=en&ei=f3jPSoSFKoacMNHEyJUD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false

As is the case in the western Ukraine, I do not see an easy solution. To force the Orthodox from their Churches, or even worse, to force them to convert, is not a solution. It is my belief that time will heal. Over time, those wishing to return to Catholicism will, no matter who owns the Churches, and if need be, will build their own. Boorish behavior, lies about each other etc. do nothing but bring joy to the demons. If a particular parish has 100% desire to go over to the RCC, let them go, as their hearts are already there. Maybe Metropolitan Nicolae Corneanu of Banat might wish to go as well.

Alexandr