www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology A Question regarding Her Majesty the Queen in the Liturgy

Greetings!

I have a question, and I imagine it would mainly be directed to those people in Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand and other Commonwealth nations, or those countries with a reigning monarch.

Whilst not widely known, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is in her own right the Queen of Canada, Queen of Australia, Queen of New Zealand, etc etc as well as being the Queen of England. That is to say, her title as Queen of England aside, she is the monarch of those countries separately.

On this note, I know that at Liturgy we pray for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. We do this before we even commemorate our own Metropolitan.

My question (trust me, I am getting there) is, do those churches that fall under her dominion - or that of another monarch, commemorate the monarch during the Liturgy?

I don't even know if the ROCOR/OCA/UGCC/GOC/etc do this here in Australia. . . though I guess they would. Is it a requirement in some places? UK for example?

Any help in feeding my curiosity will be most appreciated

Cheers,

Misha


PS: Wonder if I am dangerous enough to ask Father Serge if they commemorate Queen Elizabeth II in Ireland? ....


...and if they don't: perhaps would they like to?!!!

Living in Wales, but having to attend Liturgy in England, I have yet to notice.

I know that when I lived in Canada, the queen was prayed for during the Liturgy.

I will pay more attention this Sunday!

I have noticed that the Queen does tend to be mentioned in Orthodox Liturgies in Australia. Catholics dont mention HM at all (The Latins would weave HM into the intercessions if the occasion demanded it). The UGCC use the American expression of a nation under God in their English Liturgies, which is so NOT an Australian expression, that it really sticks out as odd.

Really? I've been to a lot of Ukrainian Greek Catholic liturgies, in English, and never heard this phrase used, ever. In this country, Greek Catholics (Ukrainians, Ruthenians, Melkites, Romanians) commemorate the government and the armed forces, the civil authorities, and all those in the service of our country. A number of Orthodox jurisdictions include the President (just like that, never by name) in the list, which is otherwise pretty much the same.

Have to say I haven't noticed this .

I may not speak Ukrainian but I'm certain I would have spotted a commemoration of the Queen.

And as for Misha's suggestion of asking Fr Serge, my response to that is




" Misha do you wish to survive ? "

I believe Father Serge would commemorate Cardinal-King Henry IX [en.wikipedia.org]

Keep praying

No king but a Plantagenet.

It has more to do with the version we are using as it does not appear in the Basilian books previously used. The new books are not popular with the local Ukrainians but we needed to get them, as we were told as our version of the Our Father had one word difference from the standard translation currently in use. The late Fr Peter Knowles OP was known to slip the good lady into the liturgy if he was in the mood.

Do you refer to your bishops as "M'lord"?

hehehehee I am sure our Dear Father Serge has a wondeful sense of humour...



LOL

Since Ireland is not part of the "British Commonwealth" and Elizabeth II has not even the most shadowy connection with the Government of Ireland, there is no conceivable reason to give her a liturgical commemoration here, any more than we would commemorate the King of Sweden, the King of Norway, or the King of Denmark.

There is also the question of whether one should give a liturgical commemoration to a Protestant monarch.

As to the Cardinal King Henry IX, he has been dead for 200 years. One does not normally commemorate deceased Sovereigns except, perhaps, on the anniversary of their repose. God grant King Henry IX eternal rest, but we would hardly advocate digging him out of his grave and crowning whatever remains of his mortal remains after two centuries.

Fr. Serge

Father Serge:

Father Bless!

As her role as "Defender of the Faith" does that override her Anglican association? I ask this not rhetorically, but as a literal question. You are our resident Liturgical expert and I wonder if there are any 'rules' on the acknowledgement of people in office (so to speak) who are members of (or in this case, the head of) other denominations of Christianity.

I think the position she symbolises (to those of us that do fall under her 'empire' :)) is still one to be shown respect, though perhaps the question of whether this be done during a Divine Liturgy is an interesting one I hadn't thought of before.

I think for us first wave immigrants, she is seen as a 'saviour' of sorts. She is the 'person' who let us get out of China and into safer lands. Also, being monarch - you couldn't get more anti-Bolshevik than that. Perhaps it is more a Russian thing, and more specifically a White Emigre thing?

If anyone could help us out with their personal thoughts/experiences - much appreciated

Misha

When I was young and cheeky and living in the Serbian moanstery at Elaine outside Melbourne, I and another Kiwi monk were offended when the hieromonk who served the daily services of Matins and Vespers began to pray for "our heir apparent Alexander" of Serbia during the litanies. We said to him "This is Australia, we should pray for the Queen as well." "No," he said, this is not Australia, this is a piece of Serbia."

So, being as I say young and wicked, we decided not to sing "Lord have mercy" to the petition "o Prestolonaslednike Alexandre." Since we were the only two people singing on the kliros this produced an unfortunate hiatus in the service. This continued for about a week. After that the hieromonk complained to the bishop - and, glory be, he decided that the Queen must be commemorated!

For all of my own life as a hieromonk, in both the Serbian and then the Russian Church Abroad, I have always commemorated the Queen by name and the Royal Household (after the hierarch) at all Services and at the Liturgy.

Well done Fr Ambrose