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The above post again draws my attention to inculturation in the liturgy, and "how much" is acceptable.

In my humble opinion, if there are some who want to dance around with leis and do luaus, etc., that should be kept apart from the official liturgies, especially the Mass.

Even the fact that a play was performed in the basilica leaves me uncomfortable. Can there be no place which is treated as totally separate and wholly apart from the the rest of the world, especially "entertainment"?

All of this is not to downplay the significance of the occasion, and the fact that thousands of people have come out to venerate the sacred relics of St. Damien on their way back to Hawaii.

Alexis

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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
The above post again draws my attention to inculturation in the liturgy, and "how much" is acceptable.

In my humble opinion, if there are some who want to dance around with leis and do luaus, etc., that should be kept apart from the official liturgies, especially the Mass.

Even the fact that a play was performed in the basilica leaves me uncomfortable. Can there be no place which is treated as totally separate and wholly apart from the the rest of the world, especially "entertainment"?

All of this is not to downplay the significance of the occasion, and the fact that thousands of people have come out to venerate the sacred relics of St. Damien on their way back to Hawaii.

Alexis

The Church decides how much is acceptable based on the culture of a people and how dance is perceived in that culture. I am completely against the goofy invented liturgical dancing seen occurring illicitly in most of the US and elsewhere.

However, where dance is traditionally part of the religious culture of a people they have every right to inculturate that into Liturgy with guidance from Rome. The Church has apporved this for modified Roman Rite Uses among Native Americans and Dioceses of Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo).

Fr. Deacon Lance



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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
The above post again draws my attention to inculturation in the liturgy, and "how much" is acceptable.

In my humble opinion, if there are some who want to dance around with leis and do luaus, etc., that should be kept apart from the official liturgies, especially the Mass.

Even the fact that a play was performed in the basilica leaves me uncomfortable. Can there be no place which is treated as totally separate and wholly apart from the the rest of the world, especially "entertainment"?

All of this is not to downplay the significance of the occasion, and the fact that thousands of people have come out to venerate the sacred relics of St. Damien on their way back to Hawaii.

Alexis

The Church decides how much is acceptable based on the culture of a people and how dance is perceived in that culture. I am completely against the goofy invented liturgical dancing seen occurring illicitly in most of the US and elsewhere.

However, where dance is traditionally part of the religious culture of a people they have every right to inculturate that into Liturgy with guidance from Rome. The Church has apporved this for modified Roman Rite Uses among Native Americans and Dioceses of Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo).

Fr. Deacon Lance

Yes.

Just to clarify that neither of these occasions was a Mass, although as you say Fr Deacon since the second Vatican Council some music and dance that is indigenous to worship of aboriginal/native peoples has been allowed within worship in those communities.

I am generally much in sympathy with where you are coming from, Alexis. I nearly left a Mass a couple of years ago when so-called "liturgical dancers" got going- something entirely outside our own spiritual patrimony.

There are norms about what can be allowed within the church building. Without looking them up I believe the one man play of Damien indeed stretches that, but no more, and I'd even say less, than some missions that have been preached inside the church building. It was a profound evangelization, proclamation of the Good News. I also recognize my own prejudice, that the chance to be brought ever closer to the real man Damien and his struggles made the physical presence of the relic when it arrived later all the more real and profound to me, not just a mysterious box we silently knelt before.

Again, Alexis, I am in sympathy with the basic concern your message is motivated by.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Mike
I rejoice in Fr. Damien's canonization but feel badly for the sisters of st. francis (Syracuse) who provided most of the medical attention given to the leper community. They should also be recognized for their contribution to what happened at Molokai.

Bless, Father,

Always nice to see a post from you. As John said, Mother Marianne has been beatified and will hopefully soon be canonized.

Less remembered is Joseph Dutton. Born in Vermont, he was a Union Army Quartermaster Corps captain in the Civil War and, at its conclusion, volunteered to search battlefields to recover and properly inter the unburied dead. After an unhappy marriage, he drank heavily for several years before making a lifelong vow to never again touch alcohol.

Shortly afterwards, he converted to Catholicism and determined to lead a life of penance. He entered the Trappist Monastery at Gethsemene and remained there for a couple of years before hearing of Father Damien and leaving for Molokai. He arrived a few years before Father Damien's repose and spent the remaining 42 years of his life, as Brother Dutton, nursing and otherwise caring for the colony's male patients, until his own death at 88. He was buried alongside Father Damien.

There are a remarkable set of murals on the walls of Blessed Sacrament Church in Stowe, VT, depicting life on Molokai as described in his letters and in biographies of Father Damien.

May his memory be eternal.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by likethethief
There are norms about what can be allowed within the church building. Without looking them up I believe the one man play of Damien indeed stretches that, but no more, and I'd even say less, than some missions that have been preached inside the church building. It was a profound evangelization, proclamation of the Good News. I also recognize my own prejudice, that the chance to be brought ever closer to the real man Damien and his struggles made the physical presence of the relic when it arrived later all the more real and profound to me, not just a mysterious box we silently knelt before.

Again, Alexis, I am in sympathy with the basic concern your message is motivated by.

While I'm also sympathetic to the misuse of churches as performance settings, I also feel that there are distinct instances in which some inculturation is not merely acceptable but the highest example of the respect and devotion of an ethnic or indigenous people to their Creator. Let's not forget that much of the religious praxis and accoutrements that are so dear to us reflect inculturation from the places in which the Faith was formed and grew. Should those whose ancestors were not fortunate to receive that Faith until centuries later be deprived of the possibility of adding their own cultural touch to worship of the God whom they have embraced?

As regards the play, everything that I have read of it describes a truly moving depiction of a modern day man living a life in imitation of the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy. It appears to be as spiritual an experience as one could hope to have outside of an actual service of worship. It seems to me that the young actor who has made its performance very much a part of his life is truly doing God's work and, despite being the curmudgeon that I am, I cannot see that it, in any way, detracts from the sanctity of the Holy Place.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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