www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Italian media speculates: Vatican will announce massive reception

Passed this along to my Anglo-Catholic friends, who inform me that as of 2002, TAC had about 5200 communicating members and several hundred more people who regularly attended their services but were not formally members. This makes them bigger than the Romanian Exarchate, and some of the Eastern Catholic micro-Churches, like the Russians and the Ge'ez. Most TAC parishes are very small, even by our standards--I have a friend in Western Maryland whose parish numbers about 30 people in all. She tells me this is not unusual.

It was bound to happen: this piece of claptrap has been bouncing around cyberspace:

"Assuming there is any significant movement of Anglicans into this Ordinate, it will constitute essentialy the first new Rite in the Western Church since Trent. If the Rite gets any particular size, it will provide a home for the many Roman Catholics who desire married clergy to migrate to, adding to the size of the Anglican Uniate Rite."

1. the first "new Rite" in the Western Church since Trent is, funnily enough, the post-Tridentine Missal of St. Pius V. And, of course, there is the Novus Ordo of Paul VI.

2. Nobody has yet succeeded in coming up with an agreed definition of the bizarre term "Uniate".


Speaking of words, the plural of "diocese" is "dioceses".

Fr. Serge

The Missal of St. Pius V was rather a codification of existing Roman rite, than introduction of a new rite. And there are a few "Novus Ordo" rites actually, because other Western rites also have their "renewed" counterparts, like Novus Ordo Ambrosian.

But the Roman rite codified by Tridentine Missal is itself a medieval hybrid brought to Rome in the 11th century. The Old Roman Rite, the one known to Gregory the Great, pretty much died out in Rome and Italy in the 9th-10th centuries. It had, however, already been exported to the Carolingian court and spread widely north of the Alps. It was, however, a bit too austere for the Franks, who grafted on elements of the more ornate and prolix Gallic rite (which, having originated in and around Lyons, was influenced by various Eastern liturgies). The resulting hybrid is known as the Romano-Frankish rite, and is the progenitor of most medieval Latin rites, including the Tridentine (derived, I believe, from a missal in use in northern Italy).

So neither the Novus Ordo nor the Tridentine represent the "pure" Roman Tradition, and both have problems relative to the principles of liturgy enunciated in Sacrosanctum concilium, the objective of which was, principally, to return the Roman rite to its pristine origins. Interestingly, the liturgical commission established by the Council of Trent had exactly the same mandate. Both commissions failed in their task, but for very different reasons.

An interesting thought...

Fr. Dwight Longenecker: 'A Bridge Across the Tiber'
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34679

Response from the Anglo-Catholic community is mixed at best. Will their fear of popery override their sense of their own "Catholicism"?

Well, the liturgy is a living thing and it is enriched during the centuries, particularly in the not-core parts.

The changes that happened in the Byzantine liturgy are for example very well known: there is fore sure more difference in the liturgy in Constantinople between the VII century and now than between the Latin Mass of Gregory I and the Tridentine Rite.

That is richness!

I would not take a bet on that, if I were you.

I'm wondering how this new development will effect former Anglicans already in the Catholic Church. Will the laity be able to become canonical members of this new ordinaryor will they have the option of staying Latin/Eastern?

The devil is always in the details.

Specifically, it means they won't have to have the TAC under their omophoria...

The Anglican Catholics will have overlapping jurisdictional dioceses and parishes, much like the military ordinariates do.

Once these are established, I assume that any Catholic in good standing could attend Mass there and receive communion. I also wonder whether these ordinariates will be allowed to receive transfers from other Latin Church parishes and dioceses.

I remember reading in some article/commentary, which I cannot find at the moment, that stated something to the effect of: any Catholic could attend mass their to fulfill the obligation, but change of "rite" should be limited peimarily to those who were of the Anglican fold before.

I will continue to try to find the source and get the exact material.

Isn't that the way it is with all the Eastern Rites? They overlap and are within other Latin dioceses.

dear and Rev. Pani:

I think the big difference is that overlapping of the Eastern Catholic (or Orthodox) Churches are overlapping territories of different "Churches" - whereas the Anglican Catholic ordinariates are presumably (I presume anyways) members of the Latin Church.

to paraphrase the Chinese Government policy on Hong Kong: 1 Church 2 Rites.

I suppose we could liken it to the Antiochean church in the US: 1 Archdiocese 2 rites (Byzantine and "western" {not sure whether the so called "western" rite of the Antiocheans is Latin or more Anglican or even both?})