www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Visit of Patriarch Filaret in the news

I have often visited both Russia and Ukraine, and have frequently been told by Russians of various religious persuasions and various political persuasions that:

a) Ukrainians are really Russians.

b) Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian.

c) There is no basis for Ukrainian independence, secular or ecclesiastical.

and so on. I am not anti-Russian (I have frequently been accused of Russophilia), but somehow Ukraine seems to be a blind spot in the Russian perception of the world.

Fr. Serge

Although it would be a great and unjust disservice to the memory of those who died to forget what happened to them or how it came about, Deacon Borislav's words - quoted above - may be the truest spoken on this topic.

Many years,

Neil

Deacon Borislav,

As Neil has pointed out, many would agree with this. However, in following this conversation, my impression is that posters have been responding to your assertions that all suffered equally.

Please understand that if you make such an assertion, many people will feel that allowing you the last word would be considered agreeing with your assessment. Judging only from the people I know, few Ukrainians would state that Russians did not suffer, but fewer still would agree that all suffered equally.


Yours in Christ,

Priest Paul Koroluk

Dear Stuart,

I trust the numbers in the Black Book, and hope to pick up a copy when I am next in the United States and can avoid excessive shipping charges.

As you noted, all of the victims deserve to be remembered, and our prayers should be equally sincere for each. It would not hurt for us to make this clear as often as necessary so that we are not misunderstood, perhaps especially when we point out acts committed against one specific group.

However, regarding the millions killed by, and because of, the Soviet government in Moscow, it should not diminish our recognition of the victims who were Russian to note that a disproportionate number of those who suffered were not Russian, or to recognize that there is objective evidence that the Soviet government specifically targeted certain groups, such as Ukrainians, for punishment and execution. Regarding only those killed by the Axis, I have seen figures that show that the odds of being killed by the Germans or their Allies was about 1 in 25 for Russians, 1 in 10 for Ukrainians and Poles, 1 in 5 for Belarusyn, and 2 in 3 for ethnic Jews. It is natural that different groups would see this differently, especially those who lived where the majority of battles were fought and felt they suffered under both sides.

Beyond the numbers, it is useful to recognize that most Ukrainians, even while recognizing that there were Ukrainians who collaborated with the Tsarist or Communist governments, feel that the tragedies would not have occurred if Ukraine had not been forcibly annexed by the governments in Moscow. Both for individuals and groups, there is a big difference in how we remember a mistake of our choosing, versus how we remember the effects forced upon us by someone else's mistake. Historically, the people of Ukraine have tried to re-establish an independent country, and independent Church, at any point where there seemed to be hope of doing so.

Most Ukrainians, really and truly, only want to be left alone, and would be happy to not mention their neighbors to the north, if given a chance.


Yours in Christ,

Priest Paul Koroluk, UOC-KP

Dear Pan Bohdan:

Your questions touch on a matter that is a source of much of the friction among the faithful of the UOC-USA.

Patriarch Mstyslav (of Blessed and Eternal Memory), personally signed and sealed the amendments to the UAOC Constitution which enabled it to merge into the UOC-KP, and did publicly state that he would protect both the merged church and those of the UAOC who chose to stay outside it. (Legally, they formed two new UAOCs.) Upon his repose, the UOC-USA sent a delegation of 30 people, including three voting delegates, to the 1993 UOC-KP Sobor. Archbishop Antony led that delegation, accepted nomination as a candidate for Patriarch, and participated in all of the liturgical events, including the enthronement of Patriarch Volodymyr.

Many of the Ukrainian Orthodox faithful in the United States thought, and continue to believe believe, that the UOC-USA was part of the Kyiv Patriarchate. In fact, many were pleased and joyed that the church in the United States, which had for years remained independent and resisted charges of being 'uncannonical', contributed to the re-establishment of an autocephalous orthodox church in Ukraine.

However, the Consistory of the UOC-USA has argued in court that the church in Ukraine and the church in the USA remained two different churches, and that Patriarch Mstyslav, in being Metropolitan of the UAOC-USA and Patriarch of Kyiv, was simultaneously primate of two different churches. This argument is for various reasons difficult for many, including me, to understand.

Yours in Christ,

Priest Paul Koroluk, UOC-KP

Dear Father Paul,

Vladyka Mstyslav of Blessed Memory always emphasized the fact that he was the Metropolitan rather than the Patriarch of the UOCUSA.

We can make of this what we will, but the above is certainly true and widely known.

Mstyslav was capable of some remarkable anomalies. During the lifetime of Metropolitan John (Theodorovich), Mstyslav served in the USA as his vicar Archbishop and therefore wore a black klobuk. Simultaneously, in Western Europe Mstyslav was the Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Autocephalous Church, so when in Western Europe he wore a white klobuk. Go figure.

Fr. Serge

I just came back from S. Bound Brook and after talking to an Orthodox Priest from Chicago I learned that most people in attendance of the hierarchical liturgy served by the leader of KP were in fact Byzantine Catholics. Also many of the priests who served in the altar were also Byzantine Catholic.

I find that to be a bit odd.

I agree. It is really odd. Than again commemorating His Holiness Bartholomew the Patriarch of Constantinople in the Altar of a Church you have pouched from him is also a bit odd.

Dear Deacon Borislav:

It seems that somewhere between the person who observed the events in Chicago and your report above some confusion was introduced.

On Saturday, October 24th, His Holiness Patriarch Filaret served a Panahida for the repose of the souls of those who perished in the Holodomor genocide. Two Byzantine Catholic priests from Chicago participated, and many faithful from other Orthodox and Catholic churches in the greater Chicago area attended. While there is no concelebration of liturgy, clergy of the Ukrainian Orthodox, including UOC-USA, and Greek and Byzantine Catholic churches have always prayed together at memorial services of this type. In fact, this was the first year that UOC-USA clergy chose not to participate in the Holodomor Memorial Service in Chicago.

On Sunday, October 25th, His Holiness served a Patriarchal Divine Liturgy at St. Andrew's in Bloomingdale. Other than Metropolitan Iziaslav (Brutskiy),of the Belarusian Autocephalous Orthodox Church, all of the clergy were clergy of the UOC-KP, namely:

Archbishop Alexander (Bykowitz), St. Andrew UOC, Detroit, MI
Archimandrite Epiphany (Dumenko), who accompanied His Holiness from Ukraine
Archimandrite Pytyrym (Cherwiatuk), Holy Protection UOC, Chicago, IL
Very Rev. Victor Poliarny, St. Andrew UOC, Bloomingdale, IL
Very Rev. Oleh Zhovnirowych, Holy Ascension UOC, Clifton, NJ
Very Rev. Bohdan Zhoba, Holy Trinity UOC, North Royalton, OH
Very Rev. Boris Zabrodsky, St. Nicholas UOC, Homewood, IL
Very Rev. Alexander Dviniatin, Holy Trinity UOC, Bridgeport, CT
Very Rev. Stefan Zencuch, Transfiguration UOC, Panama City, FL
Rev. Roman Glotov, St, Stephen UOC, Brunswick, OH
Rev. Michael Tsiuman, Mother of God of Pochaiv Parish, Philadelphia, PA
Rev. Michael Pasieka, currently unattached, Chicago, IL
Rev. Michael Vasenda, St. Sophia UOC, Chicago, IL

Although there were some visitors, mostly from the other Ukrainian Orthodox churches in the greater Chicago area, the overwhelming majority of those present at the liturgy were the regular faithful of St. Andrew UOC. There are many photos and videos the the liturgy, including those attached to the Chicago Daily Herald article which user Diak posted to begin this thread.

As to commemoration of the Ecumenical Patriarch and other patriarchs, Patriarch Filaret, just as Patriarchs Mstyslav and Volodymyr before him, commemorates in due order the primates of all national churches, with the exception of the Patriarch of Moscow. The Patriarchs of Kyiv have not commemorated the Patriarch of Moscow as, from the Kyivan perspective, Moscow has created and is perpetuating a schism in the Ukrainian Church.

As to "poaching", the Synod of the UOC-KP has welcomed back to the Kyivan Patriarchate all parishes in the US who democratically expressed their desire to return to the Kyivan Church through open balloting of their members. Out of caution, the Synod even waited for the New Jersey courts to decide the first round of litigation filed by the UOC-USA against the faithful of Holy Ascension before offering protection to that parish. Again, although both you and user Progressive have stated that most of the faithful at St. Andrew's in Bloomingdale left the parish, at the actual parish meeting where the vote was taken, more than 80% of those voting chose to return to Kyiv.

I understand that you feel differently, but I really do not feel that this fits the definition of "poaching".


Yours in Christ,

Priest Paul Koroluk, UOC-KP

Isn't Metropolitan Iziaslau dead?

David

Dear David,

I thank you and apologize for the error, which is mine. In the report of the liturgy, the participating BAOC hierarch was listed only as "Bishop Izialav". I used Google in the hope of finding his complete name and title, but obviously relied on outdated information.

The list of UOC-KP clergy is complete and correct.


Yours in Christ,

Priest Paul Koroluk, UOC-KP

For those who can read Belarusyn, the story is here.

http://belaoc.org/content/view/114/2/lang,english

I am sorry Father, but you are just plain wrong.

80% of the parish did not vote to return to Kyiv. I know the Father Bohdan and Father Taras Naumenko who are the only two Orthodox Priests who serve in Chicago who have both confirmed that the only people who wanted to go to Kyiv were in the parish board, and that almost all the faithful have left the parish.

I think you are just terribly misinformed.

Finally how could the parishes in the USA "return" to the Kyivan Church if they had never actually been under Kyiv?

Again you are simply misinformed.

In the end it does not really matter how you or I feel about what the current leader of KP did in Chicago, but the fact remains that he took the parish from the EP.