www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology My wife hates my Ukrainian Church...I don't know what to do

Hi, I joined these forums precisely because I need advice and prayer on this issue.

My wife is not Ukrainian like me but a Filipina. When we were dating and engaged, she attended my Ukrainian Catholic parish with me every Sunday. We got married in that Church. Unfortunately, after we got married, there were some people in the parish that offended her personally (jokes about her weight gain made in front of other people, remarks about her dark skin color, etc.) I told my wife to forgive them, especially since it's been several months ago. She can't let go. She is Latin rite, but lately she has been attending a Ruthenian parish that she likes better. And admittedly, it is a far superior parish. It's better organized, the people are warmer, etc.

For now, it's only a small problem compared to the future. In the future we plan to have children, and she refuses to allow our future children to become baptized in the Ukrainian Church. Now, according to Canon Law, if the husband and wife don't agree, the law favors the husband. I mentioned this to her, and she flipped, and would have nothing of it, and said that I am a bad husband because I am not siding with her, but that instead, I am insisting that our children become baptized in front of a bunch of hypocrites that don't love or accept her. The arguments got really awful, and were putting a great strain on my marriage.

Since she really wanted to have our children eventually baptized in a Latin rite church, I suggested a compromise: that they would be baptized in a Ruthenian Church. Problem is, I have such a love for the Ukrainian language and singing that I couldn't let go. I am a leader in my Ukrainian parish and I am really hurting. And I want my children to be exposed a little to the language (though the liturgy is half in English).

I don't know what to do...I feel like backing out of the compromise. I've not been a member of the Ukrainian Church all my life just to be torn away from it because my wife was hurt by a few people.

Can anyone suggest a better compromise? And please pray for me...

Well, I'm obviously not about to suggest a divorce!

What I might suggest is that you write the Bishop, explain what happened, and ask if His Grace might consider writing to your wife, inviting her to forgive the offenders - AND write to the parish, pointing out that people are to be made welcome in our Church, not chased away.

Since Patriarch Lubomyr has already indicated that our clergy in the USA should learn Spanish, that too might help to get the point across.

with every blessing, fraternally yours in Christ,

Fr. Serge

The Ruthenian Parish is technically the same Rite as the Ukrainian... so that would not be a major issue.

You might want to just compromise on the Ruthenian parish.

Now, admittedly, that means some give on your part, but at least the children will be raised Slavic-Byzantine... albeit the Ruthenian DL in English is divergent.

I think Fr. Serge gives some excellent advice. You might also want to arrange a conciliatory meeting between the parish priest and your wife. I know several Philipinas who attend our parishes especially in the Western US and who feel at home in those parishes. You obviously love your Ukrainian parish, and with some patience, charity and healing I think she will as well.

I would caution against using Canon Law in a marital spat, even if what you say is reasonable and true. By the way you described the scene it escalated the argument and it put her on the defensive and you were, at that point, not communicating your point. If you follow Fr. Serge's advice and still have difficulty seeing eye-to-eye after the Bishop's letter, you may need to find a good mediator to help you two communicate with each other. A brewed discontent does not bear fruit in a marriage.

Terry

I'd agree with Terry. I've witnessed (and experienced) arguments where one spouse points to canon law or the catechism as an attempted discussion ender. It never has the intended effect. What helped for my family was getting my wife involved in some of the church activities. It may seem counterintuitive, but serving the parish and working with the women of the parish helped her feel more at home.

I'd like to offer different counsel. It sounds like the marriage is at serious risk. Appeals to authority, whether canon law or the bishop, will surely backfire. You cannot and must not ask her to remain in a community where the people insult her and make fun of her. Why should she subject herself to such treatment? And more importantly, why are you suggesting that she subject herself to such treatment?

Surely the exhortation of the Apostle Paul is germane here:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27)

What is important is saving the marriage. What is important, EasternWestern, is you winning the love and respect of your wife. What is important is the salvation of your wife.

By putting your love for your parish above that of your wife, you have hurt and alienated her. Rightly or wrongly, she feels that your parish church is more important to you than her. She is not asking you to abandon Christ or the Church. She is simply looking for a spiritually healthy parish community in which to worship God and raise her children.

The only people who can persuade your wife to remain at your parish are the people who have hurt her. You should go to them, accompanied by your priest, and tell them how they have hurt your wife and ask them to go to her and ask her forgiveness. Give the offenders the opportunity to repent and make things right. This could be a spiritually revolutionary event in your parish. But if this is impossible to do (and I would find it very difficult to do), then go with your wife to the Ruthenian parish--go happily without looking back, go without without regret or recrimination. If this is the only sacrifice you will have to make for the good and future of your marriage, it is, ultimately, a small one. I do not minimize the personal cost to you nor the grief you will surely experience; but it is still a small sacrifice. This is what it means to be a husband. Marriage is all about sacrifice.

I have been married for 33 years. I have four children. I have counseled many couples. Believe me when I tell you that your first concern here must be the salvation of the woman whom God has entrusted to your care and love. What is important here is her faith and your mutual happiness.

Well, I'd say ask for your wife's permission and take it up to the parish priest. Both of you must talk to her. As a couple, you are now one and her pains are now yours to bear as well. You will only be happy once she is. Hope that helps.

First things first.

You do not have children yet. You'll cross the bridge when you get there!

The big problem right now is your Filipina wife clearly is hurt by the insulting remarks made by some of your Ukrainian parishioners. Particularly, their reference to her "dark" complexion borders on racism.

Your wife does not have to put up with this. She can go to any Catholic parish more welcoming to her. It's good she has not asked you whether you love your Ukrainian parish more than her (as Fr. Kimel observed above!)

Amado

P.S. Btw, I forgot to ask: Did your wife hate your Ukrainian parish even before the rude remarks of your co-parishioners?

Now, according to Canon Law, if the husband and wife don't agree, the law favors the husband. I mentioned this to her, and she flipped, .... EasternWestern clearly you are a newlywed. having been married 27 years and dated my husband since 1976 I can say you have to learn a few simple words. 1. Yes Dear to be spoken when you are wrong (even if you don't think you're wrong )- you live in the real world and the real world says Happy Wife , Happy Life. Push that Canon law around abit more and it will be a live without the wife . 2. If your wife is sensitive to people talking about her then you as the protector must stand up for her - failure to do so will leave you on the couch . 3. Any future children will be nurtured by their mother and father but honestly who do you think does the prayers and religious training - the mother mostly unless she is not around . It becomes a natural role for her . You have asked her to give up her religion and culture for yours , cut your bride some slack and ease her back into the parish . maybe there is a different mass you can attend where there are more mixed marriages, then she might warm up to it. But don't use that Canon Law again against her , you will be very sorry . Btw for your future children to learn Ukrainian there is always Ridna Shkola for that.


my 2 cents worth ,
marusia

Anybody who invokes canon law in a dispute between husband and wife is just asking for trouble. Such things are to be worked out within the domestic church, and will require mutual submission in love for each other.

EasternWestern:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

There are some very good posts here and I believe that you ought to take each into account. The wisdom of our brethren here has shown itself.

That said, I wonder why you mention that your wife now attends a Ruthenian parish. Are you worshipping separately? It seems to me that this is not a good thing in itself.

The parish church is built up from the many domestic churches that make up its membership. You seem to have a schism in your domestic church. If you're going your own ways on Sundays and holidays, are you doing so at home? It seems to me that to have your marriage on a sound footing, you need to be praying together at home because the domestic church is built up around Christ just as the parish church is. And if it is not, you've got more trouble than this set of incidents. I speak as one who has experienced and lived this problem for the whole of my marriage. My wife's father inserted himself into our marriage's faith life early on and she still believes that his dictate that she not pray with me is still in effect, though he has been dead for over 18 years. It makes all expressions of faith difficult and prevents growth on a number of levels beyond that of growing toward the Kingdom.

In Christ,

BOB

Hi,

I think that you wife is showing a willingness to meet you more than halfway. It seems that she has already done a lot of compromising. She hasn't started attending a Latin Church, she's attending a Ruthenian one. I understand that your culture is important to you, but it should not be more important to you than your wife. If you are unable to convince her to return to the Ukrainian parish, then I think the compromise is clear. She's already made it. She was a member of the Latin Church all her life, just as you have been a member of the Ukrainian Church all your life.

We don't know the full extent of the ways in which your wife was made to feel uncomfortable and hurt. I will echo the thoughts of those who already said that it is your job to protect your wife, even if she's being overly sensitive. Perhaps your wife should be able to "forgive and forget", but she is unable to at this point. If this is truly straining your marriage, it is time for you to join your wife in making compromises.

I also agree with Bob that you should be attending church together.

Elizabeth

Cleave to your wife and go Ruthenian!

I wish to thank all of you for your support and please pray for me. She is now calling for a divorce. I'll move heaven and earth to stop that.