www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology My wife hates my Ukrainian Church...I don't know what to do

I totally agree with this advice. When you marry a person of color you have to realize and understand the sensitivity to prejudice. It is a very,very complicated issue, and Caucasians generally have no idea just how complicated it is.Do not pooh pooh it off, or you'll find yourself divorced so fast your head will spin. When you side with racists you side against your spouse,and that causes a serious lack of trust and breaks your bond. Her comfort is paramount,and if you put her first later on down the line you might eventually move and find a more friendly UGCC. The fact that someone from a staunch Catholic country is even open to an Eastern Catholic church is already a major coup. That she's willing to go to a Byzantine Catholic Church is fantastic, don't push it by asking her to stay in a racist environment, she might rebel and go back to a Latin church.

Excellent advice!!

Eastern/Western: Reading over your post again, actually, I cannot believe that you would tolerate such insult aimed at your wife! Do not be on the defensive to these incredibly rude men. Their behaviour is *unacceptable*--PERIOD.

They are not only rude, but as Indigo notes, they are also racists, but even above all that, they are also troublemakers who are trying to make you feel insecure about her in order to break up your marriage.

Such people, whether they are in your parish or your family or in-laws, should be avoided at all costs. They may be many things, but Christians in practice they are most definitely not!

Go with your wife and by doing so, you will be showing her that you love her, and that you condemn their behaviour.

Alice

E-W,

Our sister, Indigo, makes a very valid point. The behavior that you describe goes beyond that of a parish that is very ethnically centered (most all of us are aware of at least one such, where any newcomer who is not ethnically _________ (fill in the blank) is ignored and can never hope to be viewed as 'one of us'). You've found a parish in which you are both welcome, move on to it, if it's not too late to do so.

Otherwise, consider that the only solution for your marriage may be to worship with her in a Latin parish, making occasional personal forays to remain in touch with your religious heritage. (Though I'd not make such to the parish that treated her in such an un-Christian manner - as Alice correctly described it.)

Many years,

Neil

I don't recall a passage to the effect of, "Go forth and teach all nations--save for the subhuman ____, and the worthless ___, and . . ."

You missed it, it was footnoted in the second printing; that was the edition that was bound in asbestos.

[quote=indigo]I [i]totally[/i] agree with this advice. When you marry a person of color you have to realize and understand the sensitivity to prejudice. It is a very,very complicated issue, and Caucasians generally have no idea just how complicated it is.[/quote]

Very, very well said. I appreciate your courage in posting this.

I am the person of color in my marriage to a (Slovak/Ukrainian) Byzantine Catholic, and my husband and I are currently facing the decision to leave our parish due to that aspect of "never quite fitting it". It makes it infinitely more difficult as we face this decision with our children's religious education in mind. Thankfully my husband has learned to recognize and react appropriately to the subtle ways that racism can occur.

I will pray for you and your wife that your issues may be resolved and that you avoid divorce. It is difficult to be the one who is "different" and to be treated like the perpetual outsider. It is also difficult to be the spouse who deals with the pain that results from their wife being treated like a perpetual visitor.

[quote=Fr_Kimel]I'd like to offer different counsel. It sounds like the marriage is at serious risk. Appeals to authority, whether canon law or the bishop, will surely backfire. You cannot and must not ask her to remain in a community where the people insult her and make fun of her. Why should she subject herself to such treatment? And more importantly, why are you suggesting that she subject herself to such treatment?

Surely the exhortation of the Apostle Paul is germane here:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27)

What is important is saving the marriage. What is important, EasternWestern, is you winning the love and respect of your wife. What is important is the salvation of your wife.

By putting your love for your parish above that of your wife, you have hurt and alienated her. Rightly or wrongly, she feels that your parish church is more important to you than her. She is not asking you to abandon Christ or the Church. She is simply looking for a spiritually healthy parish community in which to worship God and raise her children.

The only people who can persuade your wife to remain at your parish are the people who have hurt her. You should go to them, accompanied by your priest, and tell them how they have hurt your wife and ask them to go to her and ask her forgiveness. Give the offenders the opportunity to repent and make things right. This could be a spiritually revolutionary event in your parish. But if this is impossible to do (and I would find it very difficult to do), then go with your wife to the Ruthenian parish--go happily without looking back, go without without regret or recrimination. If this is the only sacrifice you will have to make for the good and future of your marriage, it is, ultimately, a small one. I do not minimize the personal cost to you nor the grief you will surely experience; but it is still a small sacrifice. This is what it means to be a husband. Marriage is all about sacrifice.

I have been married for 33 years. I have four children. I have counseled many couples. Believe me when I tell you that your first concern here must be the salvation of the woman whom God has entrusted to your care and love. What is important here is her faith and your mutual happiness. [/quote]

I agree with Father Kimel. Ultimately, your wife's as well as your own faith is what matters here. If one attends a parish where they are made to feel unwelcome in any way, the best thing to do is move on. I wouldn't even bother involving the bishop or anyone else for that matter. If these people, as Christians (it doesn't even matter that they're Eastern Catholics--I personally am an Orthodox Christian), haven't learned to welcome anyone, regardless of ethnicity, nationality, etc., I wouldn't go back there.

As I mentioned previously, I'm an Orthodox Christian. However, I might also point out that I'm Hispanic and I attend a Greek parish. It was a little awkward at first for me, but thankfully, I was never treated the way your wife was. As long as you and your wife are on the same page in regards to your faith, the parish (Ukrainian, Ruthenian, etc.) should not matter. Hope this helps.

Eastern/Western,I'm reminded of your situation because a former parishoner of mine some years back married a Roman Catholic woman of Filipina-Chinese background.I performed the marriage and later baptised their two sons.Of course,the situation here is a bit different from yours;M.was not a cradle ethnic Orthodox,but rather a convert;also his wife didn't really experience any overt racsism in the parish.M. left the parish about 9 years ago for reasons I don't feel inclined to mention.I ran into him at a Serbian Orthodox Church a few weeks back,with his wife,who is now Orthodox herself.M. told me his wife hadn't seen the love in the former parish,but had seen it in the Serbian church which they now attend.I hope and pray that you and your wife can find a workable solution.