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Dec 29th, 2019
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Just in the last week, the Church of Sweden ordained its first practicing lesbian bishop for the diocese of Stockholm. Story here: www.thelocal.se/23148/20091109/ [ thelocal.se] An interesting note from the official Church of Sweden website notes a dialogue with the Coptic Orthodox Church. I wonder how the "listening" went. Women pastors a difficult question in discussions between the Church of Sweden and the Coptic Orthodox Church
The continuing theological doctrinal discussions between the Church of Sweden and the Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Church which were held in Karlstad in the middle of February began with a visit to Archbishop KG Hammar in Uppsala. For him this was the first visit of a foreign delegation. The group was led by the Metropolitan Bishop Bishoy, secretary in the church synod.
Two questions are considered difficult to solve in the theological discussions. Bishop Bishoy mentioned especially the question of female pastors and the church's attitude towards homosexuals. Hammar explained that the Church of Sweden has for a long time had reason to deliberate regarding the position of women in the church and that he hoped that the Coptic Church was willing to listen to the experience of the Church of Sweden.
The Egyptian delegation included Bishop Thomas from El Qoussia, Father Moussa, a teacher at the theological seminary in Cairo and Father Guirguis from the Coptic Orthodox congregation in Stockholm. Participants from the Church of Sweden were Bishop Bengt Wadensjö, Samuel Rubenson, pastor and teacher at the theological faculty in Lund, Gunnar Lind, pastor and CSM missionary in Cairo and Jan Henningsson, secretary for mission theological matters at the church head office in Uppsala.
Karin Hollmer
Last edited by theophan; 11/15/09 02:30 PM.
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What kind of dialogue may we have with this sect? Will that lead Apostolic Christians to something positive?
Let's just not forget that the "Church of Sweden" is not a Church at all. It's an organization of lay heretics who believe in homosexual and women "priesthood", which is irrelevant, as the "Church of Sweden" has no priesthood and no sacraments. It's a secularist organization like any other Swedish ministry.
Their services, just as those of the Anglicans, are nothing but sacrilegous simulations of the holy mysteries (having no priesthood they can't celebrate sacraments).
They have no part with Christ and his Church. Apostolic Christians who believe in the male priesthood and the Christian tradition have nothing to learn from them.
Last edited by Mexican; 11/13/09 10:45 PM.
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Unfortunately, the Scandinavian Lutherans, while maintaining a semblence of the theology of the historic episcopate and "traditional" understanding of the sacraments, have fallen into heresy in practices such as these - we should take this as a caution re: the nose-bleed high Anglicans, just because they maintain the smells and bells, and spout all the theology that we like regarding the Eucharist, at their core many of them are protestant in theology, and not just protestant, they are reconstructionist/reform protestant with a penchant for traditional liturgical dress and styles.
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They have no part with Christ and his Church. . . . an organization of lay heretics . . . Easy . . . I know that this is a controversial thing and I didn't post it to bring up anyone's blood pressure or to inflame anyone. I know that the Church of Sweden has moved in a direction that is an eternity away from the Apostolic Churches. Let's not forget that there are sincere people within the Church of Sweden who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ, even if we might disagree from our standpoint. My grandparents came from the State Church and they were strict, sincere Christian people. They tolerated far less in their Christian walk than many Catholics I grew up with. I thought this whole thing might give us some insight into what the Continent is wrestling with. On the one hand, a secularizing super-national organization is developing that is trying to erase all traces of traditional Christianity and on the other there is the witness of those who are trying to re-do Christianity in such a way that it will look like something the secularists can either identify with or simply disregard as no longer a threat. It seems to me that the current ecumenical situation needs to be radically rethought in light of these sorts of things. How long can we dialogue with people with whom we seem to have so little in common? BOB
Last edited by theophan; 11/15/09 02:26 PM.
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It seems to me that the current ecumenical situation needs to be radically rethought in light of these sorts of things. How long can we dialogue with people with whom we seem to have so little in common?
BOB Precisely. Many of us are discovering that we have more in common with the orthodox, conservative remnant other denominations than we do with the liberal extremists of our own. I have much more commonality in matters of liturgics, personal morality, and public witness with traditional Anglicans, Latin Mass Catholics, and Eastern Christians than with those "Lutherans" (in name only) who advance a femized liturgy from which the revealed name of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has been excised; and for whom the privilege of the Holy Ministry is viewed as a "right" the must be accorded to all persons of all sexual persuasions.
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Most of the "mainline" protestant denominations now share the secularist view that homosexuality is part of an inevitable march of progress, and that it is only a matter of time before everyone else catches up with them. That is not to say that there are not sincere Christians in these groups. But their overall trend is with Godless secularism.
I have an Episcopalian friend who received a letter from his (female) pastor urging him and other parishioners to vote "no" on Proposition 8 (the anti-gay marriage initiative in California). He has not darkened the doors of his church since. The Anglican church in particular is being wrenched apart by this kind of stuff. It is a sad thing to watch. Christians who adhere to the Orthodox creed must stick together and pray for one another during these difficult times.
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The Church of Sweden is handicapped by its relationship with the Swedish government, certainly. However, the Church of Sweden in not totally without merit. As one of the people who made strenuous efforts to support the Churches in persecution during the Soviet period (and landed in prison more than once for this "offence") insightfully commented, "it is never safe to say that a Church is dead". Better we should pray for the Church of Sweden than sit in judgement on her.
Fr. Serge
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