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The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is the Orthodox understanding on the afterlife.

Luke 23-26. And in hades he lift up hise yes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus,that he may dipthe tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou arttormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The commentary of this passage of scripture by Blessed Theophylact(Archbishop of Ochrid and Bulgaria) is quite helpful in understanding the parable.

Quote
When the Lord cast Adam out of paradise He settled him in a place just opposite, so that the continuous sight of paradise before his eyes would keep fresh in his mind the calamity that had befallen him and would arouse in him a sharper sense of his fall from good things. In like manner the Lord condemned the rich man to a place just opposite Lazarus, so that the sight of him in such a blessed state might awaken in the rich man the realization of the good things he lost because of his cruelty. Why was it that he saw Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham, and not of any other of the righteous? Because Abraham showed hospitality to strangers. The rich man sees Lazarus with Abraham as a reproof of his own inhospitality. Abraham used to draw into his own house even those who were just passing by, while the rich man overlooked a man who was lying every day within his very courtyard. And why does the rich man address his words to Abraham, and not to Lazarus? Perhaps he was ashamed. It may be that he judged Lazarus to be no different than himself and therefore assumed that Lazarus would bear a grudge for past wrongs. "If I, while enjoying such great prosperity, overlooked him while he was suffering such great afflictions, and did not even give him the crumbs from my table, how much more will he who was thus despised now remember those past wrongs and refuse to grant me any favor?" This is why he addresses his words to Abraham, thinking that the patriarch would be unaware of what had happened. How then does Abraham respond? Does he say, "0 cruel and heartless man! Are you not ashamed? Only now do you remember compassion?" Not this, but rather, Son. Behold a compassionate and holy soul! A certain wise man has said, "Trouble not a soul that has been brought low." This is why Abraham says, Son. By this he also intimates that it is within his power only to speak to him gently, but more than this he is not permitted to do. "That which I have to give, I give you—a voice of compassion. But to go from here to there I cannot, for all things have been shut. And you have received your good things, and in like manner Lazarus evil things." Why does he use the [Greek] word apelabes, thou receivedst, and not the [simpler Greek] word elabes? We say [in Greek] that a recipient receives [apolambanei] those things which are his due. What then do we learn? That even if a man is utterly defiled and has reached the last degree of wickedness, perhaps he has done at least one or two good things. So that even such a man may have some good things, as when he obtains prosperity in this life as his reward, and thus it may be said that he has received these things as his due. Likewise Lazarus received evil things as his due. For perhaps he also did one or two evil things, and he received as his merited reward for these evil things the suffering which he endured in this life. Therefore now he is comforted, while you are in torment. The chasm indicates the separation and the difference that exists between the righteous and the sinners. Just as their choices were far different in this life, so too their dwelling places in the next life are separated by a great distance, each one receiving as his due the reward appropriate to his choices in this life. Mark here a conclusion to be drawn against the Origenists who say that there will be a time when there is an end to hell, that the sinners will be united with the righteous and with God, and thus that God will become all in all. Let us hear what Abraham says, that they who would pass from hence to you, or from thence to us, cannot. Therefore it is impossible for anyone to go from the place apportioned to the righteous to the place of the sinners, and likewise, Abraham teaches us, it is impossible to go from the place of punishment to the place of the righteous. And Abraham, I presume, is more trustworthy than Origen. (1) What is hades? Some say that it is a place of darkness beneath the earth; others have said that hades is the departure of the soul from that which is seen to that which is unseen and invisible. While the soul is in the body, it is manifest through its own energies [which animate the body], but when the soul has departed from the body it becomes invisible. (2) This is hades, they say. The bosom of Abraham is the enclosure within which are stored up the good things that await the righteous, who after the storm have found the heavenly haven. We use the same word to name those bodies of water on the sea which are shaped like harbors and havens. (3) Mark this as well—on the day of judgment the man who did wrong will see the one he wronged in the glory that is his, and the man who was wronged will likewise see the one who wronged him in that condemnation which befalls him, just as here in this parable the rich man sees Lazarus, and Lazarus, the rich man.

_____________________________________________________________
1. Origen’s teaching of apokatastasis, the ultimate restoation and reconciliation of everyone, even Satan, was condemned as heresy at the Fifth Ecumenical Council held in Constantinople in 553 A.D.

2. BI. Theophylact here provides the connection between the Greek word, ades, hades, and its etymological root, aeides, invisible.

3. The Greek word kolpos means both bosom and bay.

Source[/url] http://www.chrysostompress.org/gospel-commentary-pentecost22

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Originally Posted by DTBrown
Just came across this interesting article on the webpage of a Greek Orthodox parish:

Heaven and Hell in the Afterlife [prescottorthodox.org]
It is a great article, and much of what he says was also said by Fr. Hopko in a talk he gave at Franciscan University a few years ago.

I posted this same article on my own Geocities website, which was sadly closed down by Yahoo about a month ago, but I have reposted it on my new Google Sites webpage.

P.S. - The copy I have posted of the essay appears to be a slightly shorter version.

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I thought the idea of universal salvation was condemned by the Catholic Church?

Alexis

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Originally Posted by StuartK
It should be noted that Apokatastasis, though out of favor, can still be found in the works of Maximos the Confessor. . . .
Yes, the following quotation on apokatastasis is from St. Maximos' treatise Quaestiones ad Thalassium (PG 90:796BC):

"The Church knows three apokatastaseis. One is the [apokatastasis] of everything according to the principle (logos) of virtue; in this apokatastasis one is restored who fulfills the principle of virtue in himself. The second is that of the whole [human nature] in the Resurrection. This is the apokatastasis to incorruption and immortality. The third, in the oft-cited words of Gregory of Nyssa, is the apokatastasis of the powers of the soul which, having lapsed into sin, are again restored to that condition in which they were created. For it is necessary that just as the entire nature of the flesh hopes in time to be taken up again into incorruption in the apokatastasis, so also the powers of the soul, having become distorted during the course of the ages had instilled in it a memory of evil, so that at the end of ages, not finding any rest, will come to God Who has no limit. And thus the distorted powers of the soul will be taken up into the primeval apokatastasis, into a merely discursive knowledge of, but not into the participation in, the good things [of God], where the Creator is known yet without being the cause of [their] sin."

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Originally Posted by Apotheoun
I posted this same article on my own Geocities website, which was sadly closed down by Yahoo about a month ago, but I have reposted it on my new Google Sites webpage.

Apotheoun,

You may want to update your profile to replace the outdated website link.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Originally Posted by Apotheoun
I posted this same article on my own Geocities website, which was sadly closed down by Yahoo about a month ago, but I have reposted it on my new Google Sites webpage.

Apotheoun,

You may want to update your profile to replace the outdated website link.

Many years,

Neil
I would but I no longer remember my password, and I probably would end up getting locked out of my account. smile

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Originally Posted by Apotheoun
I would but I no longer remember my password, and I probably would end up getting locked out of my account. smile

LOL - I have no idea of my own. Post the web addy here; I'll ask John if he can work some magic.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
I thought the idea of universal salvation was condemned by the Catholic Church?

Alexis

Well, maybe. It is certainly out of fashion in the west because of the influence of Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. I don't have a Catholic catechism on hand to check whether the catechism talks about it or not.

Having said that, I have already in this forum noted the objections that can be raised to citing the fifth ecumenical council to state that the Church condemned universalism (outside of Nestorianism).

Universalism, or at least the potential for it, remains the logical outcome of the doctrine of theosis and the practice of hesychasm, both of which the Roman Church has problems with. The thought that any Christian does not have the potential to achieve theosis is anathema to Orthodoxy; hence its issues with Augustinianism.

To me, the question is not so much why westerners might condemn Universalism, which doesn't fit well with their theological system, but rather why easterners did (if they accept the fifth ecumenical council acts) and do, seeing as it is still so logically connected to their theological system.



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To my knowledge, the Roman Church does not say that any Christian (or anyone, for that matter) has the potential to achieve theosis. I think that would be equally anathema to us. But that the potential ends if one goes to Hell would, I think, possibly be an accurate description. No?

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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
To my knowledge, the Roman Church does not say that any Christian (or anyone, for that matter) has the potential to achieve theosis.
Alexis


They use a different term, glorification and/or deification, but the teaching is present.

It's not taught to the general body of the faithful by many priests, because if misinterpreted, one gets the Mormon heresy.

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Originally Posted by Otsheylnik
Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
I thought the idea of universal salvation was condemned by the Catholic Church?

Well, maybe. It is certainly out of fashion in the west because of the influence of Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. I don't have a Catholic catechism on hand to check whether the catechism talks about it or not.

While it certainly was the case that the hope for universal salvation would have been quickly dismissed or rejected by Catholic theologians, I think it is accurate to say that the opposite is the case today, thanks largely to the influence of Hans Urs von Balthasar (see especially Dare We Hope "That All Men Be Saved"?). This hope was affirmed, to the chagrin of Catholic traditionalists, by John Paul II [romancatholicism.org]. Just as the Orthodox have issues with the double predestinarianism of St Augustine, so do many Catholics. In fact, I will go so far as to say that the Catholic Church has effectively purged this double predestinarianism from her authoritative teaching. A Catholic may and must pray for the ultimate salvation of every human being!

At the same time, the Catholic Church cannot affirm a certitude and systemic necessity of universal salvation, for the very simple reason that she affirms human freedom. In the words of Joseph Ratzinger: "Heaven reposes upon freedom, and so leaves to the damned the right to will their own damnation" (Eschatology, p. 216).

Would not the Orthodox Church agree?

Fr K


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All men have the same end, i.e., God.

For God is the savior of all mankind, and not merely the savior of some; but how each man experiences the gift of salvation is determined by his own free will choices, for he can either recapitulate virtue by likening himself to Christ, or he can choose to live a life of vice and sin, and bring about his own eternal damnation.

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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Originally Posted by Apotheoun
I would but I no longer remember my password, and I probably would end up getting locked out of my account. smile

LOL - I have no idea of my own. Post the web addy here; I'll ask John if he can work some magic.

Many years,

Neil
Here is a link to my new website: The Taboric Light [sites.google.com]

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Apotheon, You write without any indication that you have read Fr. Kimel's comment above yours. I think he has made a very good and well supported case that far from being "a great article" as you called it, it was a caricature of western ideas of heaven.
Susan Peterson

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I should have said, western ideas of hell.
Susan Peterson

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