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Originally Posted by StuartK
Not very many of them, at least not here. There are an estimated 2500-3000 members of TAC in the states, and only a couple of hundred have so far applied. Some of their leading theologians, like Robert Hart, have written some pretty scathing denunciations of the constitution.


Robert Hart is an Anglican Catholic Church (ACC) clergyman. They are not part of the TAC.

I believe you may be confusing parts of the Anglican "Continuum" groups - ACC, UECNA and APCK, with the TAC affiliated Anglican Church in America (ACA).

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Originally Posted by Just a Pilgrim
I believe you may be confusing parts of the Anglican "Continuum" groups - ACC, UECNA and APCK, with the TAC affiliated Anglican Church in America (ACA).
Not surprising, I think most of us are a bit confused about all these groups! confused

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The Anglo-Catholics and Continuing Anglicans make Orthodox jurisdictional chaos look rational by comparison. As for what the significant differences are among them, if you have to ask, you aren't part of the group.

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Recently there has been some discussion of possible use of the Sarum Liturgy (a variant of the Roman Rite) for Anglicans who enter Catholic communion.

I'm surprised that much this discussion assumes that at present the Church does not permit the celebration of the Sarum Liturgy. This is a misunderstanding; the Sarum Liturgy has not been banned and never quite died. It is used on occasion at the Venerable English College in Rome, and in some places in England (I've attended two standing-room-only celebrations by the Oratorians in Oxford). It is quite lovely, and I should think that at least some Anglicans who become Catholics would retain it, if only as an option.

There was a complete set of reprints of the necessary books under Queen Mary Tudor and Cardinal Pole. The Society of Saint Osmund (in England) is trying to organize a new set of reprints, and presumably a hand missal as well.

Fr. Serge

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On a side-note, Monsignor Graham Leonard, who entered communion with Rome after his retirement from the Anglican Bishopric of London, reposed in the Lord yesterday.

Msgr Leonard is notable, among other reasons, for having been ordained sub conditione after he convinced Rome that the presence of Old Catholic lineage in his presbyteral genealogy raised at least a possibility that his orders had validity.

May his memory be eternal.


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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As it happens I spent much of the evening with some friends in Oxford - including Bishop Leonard - the night before his announcement was made public. That evening he was lecturing on C. S. Lewis. None of us guessed what was going to happen twelve hours later!

Monsignor Leonard's example should be of help to those Anglican clergy who find it difficult to disavow their previous orders. "Invalid" does not necessarily mean "inefficacious".

Requiem auternam dona . . .

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Originally Posted by Fr Serge Keleher
Recently there has been some discussion of possible use of the Sarum Liturgy (a variant of the Roman Rite) for Anglicans who enter Catholic communion.

I'm surprised that much this discussion assumes that at present the Church does not permit the celebration of the Sarum Liturgy. This is a misunderstanding; the Sarum Liturgy has not been banned and never quite died. It is used on occasion at the Venerable English College in Rome, and in some places in England (I've attended two standing-room-only celebrations by the Oratorians in Oxford). It is quite lovely, and I should think that at least some Anglicans who become Catholics would retain it, if only as an option.

There was a complete set of reprints of the necessary books under Queen Mary Tudor and Cardinal Pole. The Society of Saint Osmund (in England) is trying to organize a new set of reprints, and presumably a hand missal as well.

Fr. Serge


Fr Serge

The below link is to some videos on The Anglo-Catholic [theanglocatholic.com] blog of the Anglicanorum coetibus information day held at Our Lady of the Atonement Anglican Use parish in San Antonio.

http://www.theanglocatholic.com/2009/12/video-from-information-day-on-ac/

The third video 19-22 mins directly concerns Sarum. I include a portion of another post on that blog by a Normandy based English TAC priest, Fr Anthony Chadwick, concerning that portion of the video:

Quote
I watched parts of the Anglican Use meeting yesterday and was highly interested in a question / comment from a TAC priest (see video # 3 from 19 minutes to 22 minutes 3 seconds) with a beard and a walking stick during the questions session. He said that he had heard about a working group under Roman auspices that had produced a “typical edition of the Sarum Use” as a replacement for the present BDW and to be adapted for various Anglican situations. This lovely and obviously warm-hearted priest was most tactful about the Anglican Use, and showed his joy that so much had been achieved by this rite (in spite of its datedness and imperfections). If this is true, this is exciting news.

It has always been my dream that one day, the Church would restore the Use of Sarum to its place of honour in the English Church and among Anglicans in other parts of the world. I could see the situation of the ancient Sarum Use being a kind of “normative” rite (or variation of the Roman rite) with the possibility of formulating pastoral variations and adaptions. One such adaptation could be the post-Reformation Prayer Books with corrections as may be required by Rome. The “standard” would be in Latin, and then there would be a Cranmer-style translation into English, possibly a modern style English translation and translations into other languages as needed by actual pastoral situations. Other variations (limited by the Roman authority) could include things like supplementing or replacing the priest’s private communion prayers with the familiar Prayer of Humble Access. Obviously, our Anglican Prayer Book Office (as already permitted in the Book of Divine Worship) is of such simple beauty that it should be kept and fostered – and perhaps also allowed in Latin as well as English and other vernacular languages.

This would be a “standard” that would be flexible in application, like the Novus Ordo was intended to be. Perhaps that flexibility could be carefully regulated by the Ordinary and the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome in order to avoid the risk of abuses.

I am told some of the men in Rome read our blog. Please, Monsignor, pass these ideas onto the Congregation for Divine Worship. They might say “We’re working on it”. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see the fulfilment of a dream of more than 150 years!

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