www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News MP diocese in UK to join EP?

Let's remember the Sergianism of the MP concerning the Bolshevik rule of the Soviet system. Their treatment of 'Old Believers' for 3+ centuries. Nevertheless, those of Ukie/Rusyn/etc decent should remember Poltava, when the Russkies teamed up with their "brothers" the Poles, to try and annihilate the Ukrainians. Hmmmm, an Orthodox nation taking sides with a Roman Catholic one, to make war with other Orthodox. The Russians' little brother should remember what the Russians have always done...dominate. Of course, this is my 2 kopeks, but, let history speak, and let us not forget...pamyat.!!! mik

Mike,

I believe that must clarify your statements. While the Church may have been under Soviet subjection, the regime in itself did not last more than 73 years. What your citing for the ill-treatment and suppression of the Old Believers happens to fall mainly on the Tsarist regime before it. The same can be applied to subjection of the others cited.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Forgive me if I am incorrect, but the battle of Poltava, June 27, 1709, was fought against the invading Swedish Army, with whom some 8000 Zaporozhian Cossacks tossed in their lot, not a coalition of Russian and Poles to destroy Malirussiya! Had the Swedes won, most of the people on this forum would be Lutherans today!

Alexandr

Nations did not team up with anyone. One ruler and another ruler formed an alliance against their mutual enemy. Their subjects were not part of the deal, they just did as they were told. Nations had NOTHING to do with the battle. People have got to stop making up history, as all it does is creat false impressions of what was in fact going on and is teaching hatred. Now that is hardly Christian.

For those that are interested, the new UK Vicariate under the Ecumenical Patriarchate has setup a new website that is kept current weekly.

The link is: Click Here [exarchate-uk.org]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony,

Bless, Father

Thank you for the link. That it will be maintained weekly will make it of particular interest and usefulness.

Many years,

Neil

Whoa ! Whoa ! Whoa !

"Invading Swedish Army" - no way !!

It was the invading Muscovite (Russian) army which Hetman (Ukrainian Kozak Leader) Ivan Mazeppa attempted to stop with the Swedish King at Poltava in 1709. They were defeated and every Kozak excecuted after capture. Then the Muscovite proceeded to destroy the Kozak camp / fortress at Baturyn. They murdered every man, woman, and child they found there and set the stage for 282 years of brutal serfdom. This culminated with and 1932 - 1933 Holodomor Genocide of the Ukrainian people which sadly the current Moscow Patriarch refuses to commemorate. The worst Lutherism would have been a blessing when compared to the dire circumstances of the Ruthenians (Ukrainians) under Muscovite Imperial (Russian) rule.

I.F.

PS: The Ukrainian Government has plans to errect in 2007 a statue to the Orthodox hero Hetman Ivan Mazeppa. His picture is already found on the national currency the 'Hryvnia'.

Hello Jean,

I find your reading of history interesting. Not that it has no merit, but this is not the most often read perception of events.

I can agree that the 'Cossacks' under Hetman Ivan Mazeppa saw themselves as a sovereign people, even if Peter the Great did not. It is also true that the Great Northern War was touched off by Peter the Great seizing Estonia from the Swedes, drawing 'first blood' in an act of naked aggression. But the sequence of events makes the Swedes invaders first of Poland and next of Russia before marching into Ukraine to join up with Mazeppa, so the description of them as an invading force is not really incorrect from that perspective.

I see the logic of Hetman Ivan tossing his lot in with the Swedes. Poltava was probably the tenth or twelfth major battle for king Charles XII and he was largely successful up until that time. Charles had installed a compliant king in Poland and it is entirely possible that he planned to recognize Ukraine as a kingdom as well (speculative, hard to tell).

After Poltava it did require about 85 years for the Muscovite empire to incorporate the balance of Ukraine, mostly at the expense of Poland and often with assistance from Cossack groups, if I remember correctly.

Michael

Could it be seen as the ruling Rus family taking back for the family all that it claimed as it's own?

It seems that we are way off track here with the last several posts. The thread topic is on the Church situation in the UK as in the United Kingdom, not Ukraine. If you want discuss the history of Ukraine and its Church and cossacks, start another thread in the appropriate forum.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator