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[quote]When an Orthodox Christian who has previously married is allowed to marry again, the marriage service is radically different than the service for first marriages. There are no crowns, no songs of joy, no being led around the altar. May we ask in what Service Book you have seen this marriage service, without crowns, without any songs of joy, without the dance of Isaiah? It cannot be found.... it simply does not exist. How then do people such as the author of the above officiate at such marriage services? Do they concoct marriage ceremonies of their own devising, thereby breaking their solemmn ordination oath as a priest never to do such things?! 
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So, you are saying that Father Thomas Fitzgerald, a highly reputable Greek Orthodox theologian who teaches at Holy Cross Hellenic University in Brookline, is pulling this out of his hat? Or that the late Father John Meyendorff, one of the most influential theologians and historians of the last half century, is a mere tyro who makes it up as he goes along (Pay no attention to those citations in the books!)? In fact, nothing and nobody makes any impression upon you, Father. You refuse to accept either logic or facts--or just about anything--because "Tradition" is what they have been doing in your diocese since the day you were chrismated. That is not the Christian Tradition, that's Tevye the Milkman's "Tradition". As to why crowns are used in some Russian jurisdictions, allow me to quote again at some length from Eve Levin's excellent historical study, Sex and Society in the World of the Orthodox Slavs, 900-1700 (Cornell University Press, 1989): In practice, the Church’s stand on remarriage was governed by the oft-repeated formula of Gregory the Great [sic]: “The first marriage is law; the second, dispensation; the third transgression; the fourth, dishonor; this is a swinish life”. Because even a second marriage violated the divine intent, a person who remarried was required to undergo a variable period of fasting and prayer. A man who remarried was forbidden the normal male privilege of entering the sanctuary. He was also ineligible for the diaconate and the priesthood.
This official disapproval was reflected in the ceremony used to celebrate a second marriage, which differed greatly from that used for a first marriage. Prayers for the forgiveness of sin abounded, making it clear that second marriage was permitted only because of human weakness. They included a paraphrase of Paul’s message to the Corinthians (1 Cor 7:8-9): “It is better if you remain as I am (i.e., celibate). However, if you cannot, it is better to marry than to burn”. As a further mark of ecclesiastical disfavor, the crowning (venchanie) was prohibited. Instead, prayers over the newlyweds were recited at vespers.
Because of the popularity of Crowning (as indicated by the use of the term to mean “wedding service” and the frequency of second marriages, some service books included it for second marriages, despite the prohibition. A person could wear a crown at a second wedding only if the first marriage had ended by the death of the spouse. A divorced person was ineligible for venchanie. A hybrid sort of service evolved for use when only one partner had previously been married. In that case, only the virgin partner wore the crown, while the one entering into a second marriage went without, or wore the crown on the shoulder. The Church also imposed a penance on the couple, as a method of healing the sin involved in transgressing the first marriage by entering into the second. In short, the use of crowns in second marriages is an abuse that originated within the Slavic Churches because, to be brutally honest, priests and bishops found it difficult to stand up to the people, particularly the nobility who could influence appointments and benefices. Apparently the same bullying of the clergy by the people is allowed to distort true Orthodox teaching to this day.
Last edited by StuartK; 01/22/10 10:09 AM.
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You refuse to accept either logic or facts--or just about anything--because "Tradition" is what they have been doing in your diocese since the day you were chrismated. You think I have been chrismated? That is not the Christian Tradition, that's Tevye the Milkman's "Tradition". Is there any point to discussion with an uncouth fellow like yourself?
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Looking at the Ruthenian Recension Trebnik from Rome, the rite of crowning does take place as part of the service for a second marriage.
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Is there any point to discussion with an uncouth fellow like yourself? Here in the states, lawyers have an old saying: When you don't have the facts, bang the law. When you don't have the law, bang the facts. When you don't have the law or the facts, bang the table. Keep pounding the table, Father. I hope it is a sturdy one.
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Is there any point to discussion with an uncouth fellow like yourself? Here in the states, lawyers have an old saying: When you don't have the facts, bang the law. When you don't have the law, bang the facts. When you don't have the law or the facts, bang the table. Keep pounding the table, Father. I hope it is a sturdy one. You fly, somewhagt foolishly, in the face of the reality of the Orthodox position. I start to feel how Catholics must feel when the Orthodox keep repeating: there is no such thing as the papacy, there is no such thing as the papacy! 
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Non sequitur, Pater.
A barbarous and Scythian tongue, I know--but it does have its uses at times.
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Stuart, Your ongoing lecturing of our Orthodox brethren as to what constitutes the tradition and praxis of their own Church is the height of arrogance. Equally unacceptable is the personalization that you have put to the topic - beginning with your baiting remark, early on, Don't tell Father Ambrose. Speaking of non sequiturs, your responses have now devolved into ditties and snide commentary, such as: That is not the Christian Tradition, that's Tevye the Milkman's "Tradition". The thread no longer serves the purposes of discussion, discourse, debate, or education - being used instead as a personal soapbox. The thread is closed. Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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