www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology How many are in a catholic-orthodox marriage?

Once when we had a similar baptismal contretemps with the first child of a devout Catholic husband and a devout Greek wife, they came to me for advice. Well, it went on for months and involved the families, and young men even attacked other young men over it one night at a pub called Molly Malone's. All of us were getting a little exhausted from all this and then something came to me, whether it was from the Holy Spirit or an Irish love of gambling I don't know.

On a quiet Sunday afternoon we all took the wee mite down to a nearby crossroads. Up from the crossroads was the Russian church of the Saviour, down from it was the Greek church of Annunciation, and to the left was the Catholic church of Saint Joseph. We played "spin the baby"!!

We placed the baby in the centre of the crossroads. The Irish Catholic grandmother tried to influence the outcome and win the day by sprinkling the mite with Catholic holy water. This was looked upon as an outrageous breach of good manners and sportsmanship by the Greek family members :-)

But, the baby started to crawl a little and it crawled in the direction of the Greek church. The finger of God had pointed the way. One of the Greek uncles grabbbed the child off the road and ran down the road to the Greek church. "Father, do you have time to baptize this baby next Sunday?"

Stuart, I can't believe that even you would encourage Orthodox Christians to disobey their conscience, their Church, and their bishops and risk excommunication by receiving the Sacrament outside of the Church. Although, I'm sure that the Orthodox bishops will be relieved to hear that the laity have been given special dispensation by +H.H.Stuart I.

Alexandr

Oh, puhleez!

Face reality.

Oh puhleez yourself!

If an Orthodox Christian receives the sacrament outside of the Church, he has effectively cut himself off from communion with the Church. He has, in effect, excommunicated himself. This is reality.

Stop misdirecting the faithful!

Alexandr

I don't know where this quote came from, having viewed all the posts in this thread. However, it is the custom of this Board to give ordinary respect to the clergy members who post here. If this reference is to Father Serge Keleher, it is totally out of line.

jkay:

I think the best advice has been given for your question: that it might be best for you to go with your fiance to talk to both your pastors. Then . . .

BOB
Moderator

Young Fogey is Serge. He is not the de facto Exarch of the Irish, the Second Saint Patrick, our own beloved Father Archimandrite Serge Kelleher. To the best of my knowledge, Father Serge is not even involved in this discussion, so why did you bring him up?

FYI, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America has a wealth of information on this subject and the 'rules' from the perspective of the Orthodox Church. I will not try to summarize or discuss what are a large number of pastoral issues that any mixed couple should discuss at length with each other, with their families and most importantly,with their spiritual father(s) prior to reaching any decisions about a marriage. http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/departments/marriage/interfaith

Most of these follow the guidelines agreed to in by the Consultation, which were endorsed by all of SCOBA.

Gentleness, please!

There is no way for the moderators to keep track of who's who. I know I certainly can't. When I see a reference to "Serge" I think "Archimandrite Serge" first unless the content of the post or quote suggests a different Serge. And I think Father Serge and Young Fogey are not the only ones using the name "Serge".

I just want to point out my experiences, which include mixed messages from orthodox priests:

My soul will be in danger (orthodox priest).

Do not marry him (orthodox priest).

It's fine as long as he's Christian.(Wife of orthodox priest quoted just above...totally conflicting advice from a married orthodox couple).

It's fine, you're both christian (orthodox priest).

So...some say it's fine...yet no advice on technicalities to avoid being excommunicated although it can be done in "good conscience".

Hm.

Pani knows best, of course.

JKay,

Firstly, disregard some of the nonsense that you have read on this thread. You need to seriously sit down with your spiritual father and discuss this face to face. If that is not an option, I suggest that you speak directly to your bishop. He is available to you. If you tell me which Jurisdiction and diocese that you belong to, I will get you a phone number or address. I can sense the frustration in your posts. It is good that the two of you are addressing this prior to an irrevocable step.

Now I will speak plainly. If, as an Orthodox Christian, you knowingly receive the Sacrament outside of the Orthodox Church, you have placed yourself outside of the Grace of the Church. The consequences are dire indeed. This will be a matter dealt with between you and your confessing priest. It does not matter what has happened in the past in the diaspora in unusual circumstances. Orthodox Christians CANNOT cross-commune. If this fact is acceptable to you, and if your intended is adamant about living out his spiritual life in accordance with his own beliefs, I see no other outcomes but 2 separate paths in spiritual life. If your goal is to have the entire family spiritually grow together, one of you will have to choose.
May the Holy Spirit guide both of you through this decision. If you tell me your Christian name, I will have you commemorated at Divine Liturgy for God to guide you.

Alexandr

And what if he gives an answer you don't like, Slavi? Perhaps JKay and her intended should follow the "practical advice" given in the SCOBA endorsed recommendations?

What a spiritual director does with his children is between the two of them and God. It doesn't matter what I like or dislike about his answer. The priest will be accountable before his bishop now and before God for his direction. Each bishop will handle the situation differently and all on a case by case basis. I am merely pointing out the teaching of the Orthodox Church on this matter.

And Stuart, I apologize for loosing my patience with you. You have a gift for "pushing my buttons", so to say, and I will work on controlling my passions.

Alexandr

I am merely pointing out that the history of the Orthodox Church shows it is much more flexible in the application of its teachings than is sometimes assumed.