www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Can East and West Coexist With Married Priests?

The Bishop is willing to import married priests from Europe but not willing to ordain highly qualified married men from America. WOW! Kind of a slap in the face to those married men in the Byzantine Catholic Church who have a true vocation to the priesthood but are shut down because that also have a vocation to marriage.

Apparently, there is nothing new under the sun. Before the final imposition and acceptance by Bishop Takach of 'cum data fuerit', young men from America were going to seminary in Uzhorod and Presov, being married and ordained there and returning to America. I agree with Mike L. in that I can not imagine how importing married clergy from Europe is palatable for a young man in America who would otherwise have a vocation, but finds celibacy unacceptable. I suspect that this is very difficult for young Americans to reconcile knowing that the Greek Catholic clergy in Slovakia and Ukraine are, for the most part married. I know that in the UGCC church there are a number of American priests who studied in Lvov, married there, were ordained there and then accepted in the US. But, if you lack the language skills, the family support and financial resources to take that journey, that would not seem to present a viable option. The Orthodox church in the states has a number of wonderful priests who began their journey as Byzantine Catholics who were unable to fulfill the dual vocations of the priesthood and marriage. It is sad that this issue has vexed the American Ruthenian church since the church's entry into America over one hundred years ago. It certainly fractured many families and communities in the first half of the twentieth century.

Great comment. We do need to approach groups that are already doing it. Especially the priests and their families to learn about the special issues, but also to learn about the things that will actually be non-issues.

I've noticed so often that even people who would like to see married men being ordained, but are not or no longer used to it, have an underlying "fear" of how it will or will not work. It always seems silly. Yes their are issues particular to married priests, but their are also issues particular to celibate priests, and people have just gotten used to the issues of the celibates, and often time taught to fear the issues of the marrieds.

We all know that having a married priesthood obviously is functional, we just don't all know how it is functional, but the only way to figure it out and make it work is to just do it. We can make these things work. We just have to be willing to make them work.

I agree that it is a slap in the face those married men, but at the same time, considering there haven't been married priests in the BCC at least in general for so long, maybe this is his way of getting the people used to the idea of married priests, before he starts accepting married men for formation, ect. Who knows. It is a slap in the face, but one can hope and pray that it is actually a step toward, accepting American men of the BCC who have vocations to both marriage and the priesthood.

The idea of Trusts to provide for the priests is a good one, provided one remembers that:
1) trusts can fail
2) there is still obligation to the parishioners to provide for their priests and deacons, and the families thereof.

I expect certain wealthy benefactors might actually set up such trusts; the idea has been suggested by one such (pray for him), in that he bought land, donated it, and stipulated it was to be reserved and later sold to provide the needed funding for the parish in his home town.

What about the issue of birth control? My husband's Anglican pastor has decided that it is wrong although he doesn't preach this, and he has 5 children, the oldest of whom is 7. He was friendly with the local priest who says the "Latin Mass (Tridentine, Gregorian, Extraordinary form, whatever name you prefer.) That priest joked to him that none of the married Orthodox priests in town had more than two children. Usually having only two children means that one is contracepting; of course there are people whose low fertility makes them lucky to have two, and some people are really really good at natural family planning...or perhaps their fertility isn't all that high, but most families who don't contracept wind up with way more than two children. A married Catholic priest would certainly have to obey the Catholic Church's teaching on this matter. Therefore one should not expect his wife to work at a job outside the family, as people here have been saying that many Orthodox priest's wives do, at least not for the years of active childbearing. When one is having a baby every year and a half to three years, working outside the home is not really an option. In general I don't think we should make a plan for the support of married priests which would require the mothers of small children to work outside the home. I believe people should expect to support their priest and his family, and they should expect this to be a considerable family. My husband,s Anglican parish manages this. And they are not doing it with bequests from past years, as the Episcopal church took all of that when his parish left the Episcopal church. They are doing it from ongoing donations. They aren't a large parish, with an average Sunday attendance of about 100. If they can do it, Catholics should be able to do it as well.

Mike-

seems that you are putting words into the Bishop's mouth. Dochawk's post made no reference to what you posted. Do you know of any married men who approached the bishop about priesthood only to be told that their marriage excluded them from pursuing the priesthood?

Be careful of citing anecdotal stories. For example, in my family my parents had three children and my mother had at least two miscarriages along the way. I know many Orthodox clergy families with many children and some with none or few. Don't generalize or make an assumption. Nor should one presume that a married Orthodox clerical family is not following the teachings of their Church. Clerical families have to deal with the same issues of modern life that non-clergy families cope with daily, with the added burden of raising a family while living in a glass house. It is difficult, but not impossible. (Sorry, I had to get that off my chest from personal experience.)

You would obviously know better than I, Father Deacon, but it my understanding that he's open to married ordination. (His predecessor was not, but I understand that he helped find a UC bishop in Canada when one of his seminarians fell in love during a parish assignment ) . . .

And for all the blanket statements about face-slapping, it is my understanding that there are currently married men enrolled at C&M.

hawk

I did not put words into his mouth, just making a judgement call on what I see. Will he ordain a married man? My guess is no and that's why it's a slap in the face to import them from a eparchy that will!

When I expressed interest in the Priesthood as a Married Byzantine Catholic I was told that it was not possible and that I should focus on the joining the diaconate. I have been recieved into the Orthodox Church and it is no longer my fight to fight. However, if I were still BC it would feel like a slap in my face to have a married priest from Europe serve my parish when I could not. As for a married seminarian at Cyril & Methodius, yes there is one, but that does not mean he is from Bishop Gerald's eparchy or the Archeparchy in general, as the seminary is open to other eastern catholic jurisdactions. Here is a quote from the Dean of St. Cril & Methodius Seminary regarding married seminarians:


BTW, I mean no disrespect to the Bishop. I don't literally think he "slapping" anyone or intending harm, but the situation is certainly dishearting to married men from within the BCC archeparchy. Afterall, I thought that Eastern catholics were suppose to reclaim it's ancient Eastern traditions, this should include a married priesthood no matter what country they are ordained.

Bishop Gerald most certainly hasn't ruled out married men being ordained. He does have certain expectations, expectations that make it difficult. I discussed it with him, briefly.

Other Ruthenian-American bishops may differ wildly.

Part of the problem, however, is the Seminary... married men require certain accommodations, like room for their spouse and children.

Eulogos, I just wanted to mention that I've sent you a PM.

If memory serves correct...The Ruthenian Seminary of Sts. Cyril & Methodous in Pittsburgh did make such accommodations several years ago...there was at least one seminarian who was married with a child...I could be wrong, someone please correct me if you know more complete information, none of the Ruthenian bishops would ordain him though...

The article on married priests is being discussed over at Mark Shea's blog [markshea.blogspot.com] (popular RC writer). I am surprised that at least one respondent there seemed comfortable with the idea perhaps of having Orthodox Bishops under the Latin Rite in a reunion scenario. Hopefully, he was pointing out the logical inconsistency of such an idea as I think ideas like that would kill any reunion talk.

Having personally discussed this with him . . .

Just *importing* married priests has logistical difficulties.

And he dealt with them.

Note that this took *significant* work.

Let's not criticize him for not running while he's putting significant work into figuring out how to walk!

hawk