www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology do all ukranian catholic churches have to have an icon screen?

The church i attend the exaltation of the holy cross does not have an icon screen.All ukranian churches ive seen have one.Is this agaisnt the rules?I will post a picture on the photo forum under the same heading,for you to have a look at.

church248,

Correctly, all churches of the Byzantine Rite should have an iconostasis. There was a time, principally in the US, during which many churches either removed these or were constructed without one in an effort to appear 'more Catholic'. In other words, there was a sustained effort to fit in better in a society that equated Catholicism with the Latin Catholic church in as many respects as possible - architecture, vesture, furnishings, etc.

This attitude was encouraged - sometimes demanded - by Latin hierarchs when they had canonical jurisdiction over Eastern parishes. In other places, Eastern Catholics took the attitude upon themselves or, in one notable instance, an Easten Catholic hierarch imposed it upon them. Thankfully, these eras are past and many parishes have undertaken to rectify these mistakes, constructing, restoring, etc.

In other places, our first places of worship were either existing church structures bought from the Latins or those of other faiths or buildings not initially constructed as churches. These often presented their own issues in being made adaptable to Eastern church use (which often is a factor in the different styles of iconostasis that one sees, the floor to ceiling ones generally observed in older temples and many from the Old Country versus those of varying heights in newer churches).

There are also many instances of temples being constructed without an iconostasis because there simply were not the funds to do so initially (iconostases do not come cheap) and they are added later.

As far as I am aware, Byzantine parishes in Canada did not, historically, face the issues I've described above at anywhere near the level seen in the US - with the likely exception of the latter, as costs don't recognize borders. (And, even in the US, the issues were generally not as prevalent in Ukrainian parishes, as they were in some other of the Byzantine Churches).

A quick search of the area from which you harken seems to indicate only a single parish by the name and, to my surprise, it looks to be a temple of relatively recent vintage. (I think I saw reference to it being built in the 60s on the parish webpage - that's 'of recent vintage' to my mind.) If that's the case, it indeed seems odd that there is no iconostasis. Someone here may be familiar with the reasons behind that. We'll see.

Many years,

Neil

Addendum: I just saw and approved your photo gallery thread for posting. I see that the parish is indeed the same as that on the website I found. The website included nothing of the parish history, as far as I noticed, other than the passing remark that the parish dated to the 60s. (Though group photos there that very obviously predate that time suggest that the mention of the 60s might refer to the present temple's construction date and the parish itself might be older. Haven't been able to track down info on that possibility, not that it would explain the absence of an iconostasis.)

Our mission has no iconostas, for example. The barest minimum for the Ruthenians, per the liturgikon, is the icons of Christ Pantocrator and The Theotokos. There is preference to also have St John the Forerunner and the patron of the parish, but not an absolute requirement.

The use of easels to "fake" an iconostas is permitted. The two key icons, when placed on two easels, defines the "royal doors" as the space between them, and the "deacon doors" as the space to the outside.

Our mission uses 4 easels at present; the space is not in full time use as a chapel. Once the mission buys a proper piece of land and builds an edifice, the current icons will be installed either on pilars or a proper iconostas, and then the long term goal of filling the rest of the iconostas will begin in earnest... one or two at a time.

Yes, all Ukrainian Catholic Church are to have an iconostasis.

In 1944, the Sacred Congregation for the Eastern Church in Rome promulgated Ordo Celebrationis Vesperarum, Matutini et Divinae Liturgiae Iuxta Recensionem Ruthenorum. This text governs the Ukrainian Catholic Church. In section 6 it states: "The iconostasis bears an image of the Saviour to the right of the central doors, and an image of the Theotokos to the left; the other icons are arranged according to the custom in various places. The parecclesia and chapel also should have their own iconostases; altars are not considered truly apt for celebrating the liturgical office as long as they lack their own iconostases."

In 1996 the Congregation for the Eastern Churches promulgated Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches. In section 104, it reads: "The sanctuary is separated from the nave by a veil, gate or iconostasis, because it is the most sacred place: it contains the altar on which the Divine Litury is celebrated and the Oblation is offered. Only those who are entrusted with the sacred ministry can enter the sanctuary to complete the sacred acts."

I hope this helps.

Where can I find this text?!

Both the Ordo Celebrationis and the Instruction for Applying can be purchased from Eastern Christian Publications.

http://www.ecpubs.com/browse.html

LS,

You can find comments comparing the 2 principal English translations (one of those by Forum members, Fr Serge and Jack Figel), here [stirenaeus.net].

A scan of another English translation is here [patronagechurch.com].

A scan of the Latin text is here [patronagechurch.com].

Many years,

Neil

church248,

I inquired of a friend who is very knowledgeable regarding the UGCC in Canada as to the question that you raised. He made several points, a few of which contradict my earlier comments about latinization having been less an issue in Canada. In retrospect, I realize that I've heard some of this previously but it had apparently not fully registered or I didn't comprehend the scope of the issue.

The following is excerpted from his reply to me.



My friend was not familiar with the particulars of your parish's history, but felt that these considerations may well explain its lack of an iconostasis.

Many years,

Neil

The strictly accurate answer to the question is: yes; all Ukrainian Catholic Churches are required to have an icon screen. Alas, this does not necessarily mean that they all comply with this requirement!

I believe that in Thunder Bay two, or even three, of the four parishes have icon-screens.

The bizarre notion that having such furnishings will encourage parishes to go off to Ukrainian Orthodoxy is often heard but has no particular basis in fact.

There are, however, certain paramonastic groups (and certain diocesan clergy) prepared to leap through flaming hoops rather than allow an icon-screen in the church where they are in charge.

For an interesting tour of the possibilities, visit Edmonton. The Basilian church has almost no interior adornment; the cathedral has some but in a chaotic form; Saint George's has an utterly magnificent architecture and church interior - it's worth the trip to Edmonton just to see it.

Or read my article on Ukrainian iconography in Canada!

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father,

Where does one find it?

Many years,

Neil

Addendum: To answer my own question:

Serge Keleher, "Ukrainian Church Iconography in Canada: Models and Their Spiritual Significance," in The Ukrainian Religious Experience: Tradition and the Canadian Cultural Context, ed. David J. Goa (Edmonton, 1989), pp. 47-55

That statement is certainly borne out by these photos of the other 3 parishes there:

Transfiguration of Our Lord [ucet.ca]

Holy Protection [ucet.ca]

Ascension of Our Lord [ucet.ca]


No photos online, that I could find, of St Basil's interior.

St Josaphat UGCC Cathedral Edmonton [stjosaphat.ab.ca]

Great-Martyr St George the Victorious UGCC Edmonton [edmontoneparchy.com]

Sidenote - An interesting site, though, containing a wealth of photos of Ukrainian churches in Canada - both Catholic and Orthodox, as well as a few others, is here [ukrainianchurchesofcanada.ca]

Many years,

Neil

Seems to me that NOT having the ikonostas in church is one of the things that would drive Ukrainian Catholics toward the Orthodox Church.

The St. George link must have changed: http://www.edmontoneparchy.com/churches_more/Edmonton_StGeorge_iconography_eng.htm An interesting article also.

Thank you, my friend. Actually, the link didn't change, I somehow added an 'l' to 'htm'. Fixed now.

Many years,

Neil

Slava Isusu Khrestu

Sadly in Thunder Bay, the four parishes have been reduced to 1 fully functioning, the Exultation of the Holy Cross and it has no iconostas. From what I understand, they never had plans to have one nor do they plan to have one.

Holy Protection is no longer there! It closed and was sold to an evangelical group and is now called "Grace Church". The beautiful iconography of the altar area and body of the church was " PAINTED" over with a dark brown paint. The new owners said that the images were distracting to their prayers.

Holy Transfiguration has very few parishoners as The Church of the Ascension is in the same boat. The Ascension is used mostly for funerals.

Once a live and vibrant Ukrainian community has but one active new calendar church, Holy Cross.

Z BOhom

Kolya