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Mar 25th, 2025
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What I thought was weird was the Gnostic references to the shroud. What was up with that? Here it is: "The Real Face Of Jesus" [ youtube.com] Not sure how long this link will work! Is this my Lord, The Christ? BTW, if you want to compare the images here is a link to an Icon of Jesus: Jesus [ upload.wikimedia.org] Yeah I know. It was a bit off in making any connection to the shroud, but I guess they had to fill in some time, and true to their usual approach, it had to be some kind of mumbo jumbo that shows they are questioning the subject 'objectively'. The image is actually not too different from the image of Jesus of the Sacred Heart and other images as depicted by holy persons and saints...He is a perfect looking man, and the only thing we don't know is if his hair was light brown or dark brown, or if he had blue eyes or brown eyes...the shroud cannot tell us that, but I suppose that is altered slightly by every culture...though, even light blonde children in Jewish and other near and middle Eastern cultures tend to have brown hair when they grown up... The other thing ofcourse that this image cannot show is is the radiance, the purity, and beauty of His holiness and his soul which emenated from his equally beautiful face...
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What I thought was weird was the Gnostic references to the shroud. What was up with that? Here it is: "The Real Face Of Jesus" [ youtube.com] Not sure how long this link will work! Is this my Lord, The Christ? BTW, if you want to compare the images here is a link to an Icon of Jesus: Jesus [ upload.wikimedia.org] Thanks, Ray! I don't have television, so this was very helpful to me.
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The other thing ofcourse that this image cannot show is is the radiance, the purity, and beauty of His holiness and his soul which emenated from his equally beautiful face... True. Some people want to know in detail rationalizing all. Even God and His mercy. But He is true God and sweet is His mercy which heals deeply the soul. There is more need of humbleness and prayer in this society of 21st century AD, of true love, of sacrifice, of asking forgiveness, of many.
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Ray:
Christ is Going to His Passion for us!!
What this has done for me is changed radically the way in which I approach the Mystery of Confession. It is no longer an exercise in going over the list of questions that form the Examination of Conscience and going through the ritual itself. Rather, these activities are now the path to reconciliation with the One that I have betrayed and the Covenant He has made with me that I have broken, that I come to have repaired. Like the Prodigal Son, I return to the One who came as my Elder Brother, who let Himself be tormented and tortured so that the Enemy would not have me in his grasp now and for eternity. I think it lends itself to understanding in some small way the Eastern experience of the "tears of true and perfect repentance." And I ask myself if I'm worth that much. Obviously so, because Jesus already endured it for me and for all of us.
Bob
Last edited by theophan; 03/31/10 11:02 AM. Reason: spelling
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Thing is the provenance of the shroud is questionable. It's been declared an Icon, not a relic, at least last I heard.
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There has been plenty of debate about the authenticity of the Shroud. The interesting thing that this program brought to life is the microscopic study of the actual individual threads that make up the weave. (The program showed some of these slides.) The point was that to have "painted" the images on the Shroud, one would have had to use a one-hair brush to get thing done so delicately--something about the fact that on the upper portion that covered the Body things didn't soak through, they just touched the very surface of the threads. (Talk about splitting hairs; no pun intended.)
The researchers also identified pollen from flowers that only growth within 50 miles of Jerusalem on the Shroud, which seems to mean that it didn't come from some place in the Christian world at a later time.
Then they talked about how light travels, either in a linear or a dispersed fashion, and that fact that they have determined that the imprint on the Shroud had to have come from lgith but that the way in which it apparently happened was not either of those two ways--leading them to conclude tht there was some other explanation.
Interesting. They also said that science would never be able to explain the Shroud conclusively.
BOB
Last edited by theophan; 04/11/10 06:02 PM. Reason: spelling
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Thing is the provenance of the shroud is questionable. It's been declared an Icon, not a relic, at least last I heard. Declared by whom? I have not heard that the Church has made an official pronouncement on the authenticity (or lack thereof) of the shroud. The tendency of the Church in such matters is to refrain from making official declarations. The following quote is from Pope John Paul II in 1998: "Since we're not dealing with a matter of faith, the church can't pronounce itself on such questions. It entrusts to scientists the tasks of continuing to investigate, to reach adequate answers to the questions connected to this Shroud."
Last edited by babochka; 04/01/10 08:48 PM. Reason: Add quote from John Paul II
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[ Linked Image] Here you go, this was on the American Papist blog.
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There has been plenty of debate about the authenticity of the Shroud. A major issue I have had with accepting the authenticity of the shroud is the one place in the scriptures that describes Christ's burial clothes . . . the Gospel of John. "4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)" John 20:4-9 The Gospel account describes two or more separate pieces of linen, and in particular, a distinctively separate piece for the head, which was "folded up by itself." The shroud consists of a single, unified piece of cloth. Sincerely, John (aka soxfan59)
Last edited by soxfan59; 04/15/10 02:21 PM.
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JOHN: Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!! strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head That's where we get into the problem of translation as opposed to actual burial cutoms. I've participated in shrouding a Jew with a member of the Chevra Kadisha--the Holy Brotherhood that comes into the funeral home, does the ceremonial washing, and shrouds the body with a prescribed set garments and covers. I also had quite a number of experiences burying our Jewish brethren during my internship. There is a long piece of cloth that resembles the shroud and there is another that resembles the great aer or chalice veil to cover the face. There are also various other garments, including strips of cloth to bind the arms and legs--remember the Lord's telling the bystanders to untie Lazarus? So what I've seen and done "hands' on" makes me shake my head at the translation. BTW, which one is it you use for your citation? Bob
Last edited by theophan; 04/15/10 02:29 PM.
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The seperate face covering is known as the 'mandilion' (mandilion means scarf in present day Greek)and has a long history--disappearing from Constantinople in the sacking of the 4th crusade, etc...
I do think that was seperate than the shroud, and according to Jewish custom as described by Bob, it makes sense...
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shroud2000.com/ArticlesPapers/Article-JewishBurial.html Jewish Burial Practices
One of the more interesting avenues of research is the area of burial practices. Could the Shroud have been a genuine Jewish burial shroud? How can we find out? John 19:40 says, “Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.” What were those burial customs?
One of the points of confusion with the Shroud is that it was a custom to wash the body before burial. Yet the Shroud seems to depict a man whose wounds were never cleaned. However there appears to be an exception to this custom for those who have died a violent death. Here is an excerpt from The Jewish Way of Death and Mourning by Maurice Lamm (1969):
“The blood that flows at the time of death may not be washed away. When there is other blood on the body that flowed during lifetime (while alive), from wounds or as a result of an operation, the washing and taharah (purification) are performed in the usual manner.”
“Where the deceased died instantaneously through violence or accident, and his body and garments are completely spattered with blood, no washing or taharah is performed. The body is placed in the casket without the clothes being removed. Only a sheet is wrapped around it, over the clothes. The blood is part of the body and may not be separated from it in death.”
“Where blood flows continually after death, the source of the flow is covered and not washed. The clothes which contain the blood that flowed after death are placed in the casket at the feet.”
Notice how only a single sheet is used. Also, the man on the Shroud is naked because they cast lots for his garments. The reason for this unusual custom was due to the belief that “life is in the blood”. Leviticus 17:11 says, “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.”
Another reason why the blood must be buried with the body is because it was considered unclean. To touch a corpse was to touch something unclean and therefore become unclean yourself. One would then have to go through a ritual process of becoming clean again.
Blood that flowed after the person died is considered “life blood”. This is the blood that makes atonement. It is the trading of that which gives life for that which brings death (sin). It wasn’t just the blood, but the life in the blood that was the acceptable sacrifice.
Blood that flowed after death was often mixed with blood that flowed before death, this was called “mingled blood”. If there was more than a loss of a “quarter log” of mingled blood, it was considered unclean and must be buried with the body. A log is the content of 6 eggs. A quarter log is 1 ½ eggs. The volume of blood lost from the side-wound must have easily exceeded this measure and is why the man on the shroud is unwashed. Here's a link and some of the article about the Shroud of Turin and Jewish burial practices. Someone who died a violent death did not receive the traditional ceremonial washing and did not receive the clothing normally used, but was simply wrapped in a single piece of cloth. Bob
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Another interesting custom that has fallen by the wayside was the custom of placing a piece of cloth about 16 inches square over the face of bodies buried in this country. I don't know when it started or by what group(s) it was used, but I do know that our suppliers used to offer them in satin and silk varieties. But, then, too, there hasn't been any such offering in the past 35 to 40 years. One funeral home I used to work for still had some in stock in the late 1970s, but they weren't used any longer for that purpose at that time. They wre simply leftover paraphernalia sitting on a shelf.
Bob
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It was always done, because, well, the face tended to show the effects of decomposition quickly. The same phenomenon caused people to tie up the jaws of the deceased (as per Jacob Marley in A Christmas Carol), because the jaws would tend to freeze in the open position, and the tongue would protrude. Death ain't pretty, especially in the days before embalming and mortician's wax.
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