www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Moscow Patriarch against Turkey in EU

Who would have thought the defense of Christendom would be left to the MP?
When a mosque is built in Rome, the Vatican applauds these days.
The only European capital without a mosque is Athens.

Walnut:

Let me pass along a few things I heard from an OCA priest a few weeks ago. These are not necessarily my opinions, but I found them thought-provoking.

The Russian Orthodox Church is a 500 pound gorilla that is starting to wake up. The MP, not the EP, will emerge as the dominant force in Orthodoxy because of the size of the Russian Church. The EP has the significant office, but not the followers. If it were not for the money that comes to him from North America, he might be in dire straights. Pope JPII keeps mentioning that we should look to the East. Perhaps he sees a rebirth of Christianity coming from there. The priest also said that he doesn't see anywhere in the West that a reborn and reinvigorated Christianity could come from. I found these ideas interesting. Who knows, he may be right.

The Church of Rome has always experienced a revitalisation and rebirth, even in the most dire and bleakest of times.
Stephanos I

Wasn't it Rome who took the lead in trying to assert the Christian roots of Europe in the EU constitution?

Why should the Pope of Rome be accused of any impropriety if the civil authority decides to let a mosque be built in Rome? Did the Pope provide funds for the mosque? Did the Pope INVITE them to build the mosque? I do not understand the criticism. Can you please help me understand, Walnut40?

Blessings,
Marduk

The Republic of Italy removed the special status of Roman Catholicism from the Italian Constitution AT THE BEHEST OF THE VATICAN!!!!

Only one Italian Cardinal has raised concerns about thousands of Albanian Muslims that arrive everyday at Bari. Many have ties to the Albanian Mafia that controls the Afghanistan to Turkey heroin trade not to mention the turning of Serbian monasteries into latrines and barns. The Vatican's open borders ideology is destroying what at one time was called Christendom.
The Vatican sends the Welcome Wagon when a new mosque opens, not to mention the Koran kissing episode and the blasphemous prayer to John the Baptist to protect Islam.
Read the saints such as Ignatius Loyola and Francis Xavier for their take on Islam.
Lenin spoke of iseful idiots.
Many are such on the rise of Islam in Europe.
God bless Brigit Bardot.

HH Pope Shenouda has very cordial relations with his Muslim neighbors. Will you condemn him for that, as well? What exactly should the Pope have done when the Muslims built a mosque? Don't you know that many of your fellow Catholics are in a very precarious position in Muslim lands? You are in the United States, so perhaps you cannot appreciate the constant danger Christians are in in the Middle East. You may not be concerned about these Catholics, but your Pope is because he is their shepherd. You probably cannot conceive of the enourmous burden your Pope has. He has to juggle relations between his flock and violent Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Communists etc. in the many countries in which the Catholic Church exists. For all that, your Pope has done a remarkable job at keeping your Church together. He deserves more praise than criticism.

What HH Pope Shenouda and HH Pope John Paul have done is to extend a mere hand of friendship to Muslims for the sake of peace, and no doubt for the sake of the safety of their flock as well.

Religion is a free choice. If doesn't matter that a piece of paper says that Catholicism is the "official" religion of this or that country. The Church survives because of the Holy Spirit, not because of the benefice of a worldly government.

Blessings,
Marduk

Pope Shenouda does what is necessary considering he represents 10% of the population and the country is 90% Muslim.

The current Vatican policy may lead Italy to become Egypt given Italian birth rates.

The removal from the state constitution means the religion of 2,000 years can no longer be taught in Italian public schools. Read Pope Pius XI on Catholic Education.

The Vatican's silence on Kosovo speaks volumnes when compared to Iraq and Rwanda.

And what percentage of the population are Catholics in Lebanon?

What percentage of the population are Catholics in Egypt?

What percentage of the population are Catholics in Syria?

What percentage of the population are Catholics in Palestine? etc., etc.

Don't you think it is a bit naive to think that the Pope of Rome's actions in Rome towards Muslims would NOT have an effect on the relationship between Catholics and Muslims in the traditional Muslim countries?

If you did not know, the political hegemony of the Vatican is effectively the VATICAN, it is NOT Rome. Whatever goes on outside the boundaries of the Vatican is according to the civil authority. So stop blaming the Vatican for that.

I am not qualified to comment about the state of education in Italy. However, I will say that religion starts in the family and is nurtured in the family. if you reflect on the situation in the United States, that God is not taught in the public schools does not seem to have an effect on the prolific growth of the Christian churches and ecclesial communities. The Spirit will blow as he wills. God will preserve the Church Himself, and He (nor the Church) does not need the State for that.

As far as Kosovo is concerned, that is a baseless slander on the Catholic Church that I pray the moderator will rebuke. Archbishop Stepanic who at the time of WWII was responsible for the Church in Kosovo is even now considered by Jews to be among the "righteous Gentiles." You base your accusation on mere implications because of the concordat between the Vatican and the Reich. What solid proof do you have that the Vatican was involved in, much less approved, any sort of "ethnic cleansing," of the murder of so many in Kosovo?

It unnerves me that a Catholic seems to demonstrate such disrespect for your faith.

Marduk

I love John Paul II
That is why I wish him to be more Pope St.Pius X and less Cardinal Mahoney.
His first priority is not Chief Vatican Diplomat
It is Vicar of Christ!
Vicars of Christ should not kiss heretical books that deny the Resurrection and lose conversions!
Pope-alotry that excuses every break from Papal tradition will lead to the ruin fortold by Our Lady of LaSallette.
Most Maronites are here. Alawite-Christian axis in Syria puts Christians in safety.
Sicily, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Serbia were not liberated by appeasement of Anti-Christ. The sacrifice of blood made Europe Christian.
You don't need a diplomat, you need a Blessed Urban II or Jan Sobieski.

My reference to Kosovo concerned current events,
not the welcoming of Ustashi Orthodox priest- killers to the Vatican during WWII. Pictures dont lie. Stepanic hid Nazi gold beyond doubt.

YHWH, the G-d of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, lead his people to victory over the chief god of Babylon, Marduk.

Dear Walnut40,

If concern for the lives of his flock makes your Pope a "diplomat," then God bless him for it. I proudly declare HH Pope Shenouda to be a "diplomat" as well for having cordial relations with his Muslim neighbors.

Don't avoid the issue - if you say that it is acceptable for the diplomat HH Pope Shenouda to have cordial relations with Muslims based on the fact that the Coptic Orthodox are a minority in Egypt, then it is OK for the diplomat HH Pope John Paul to have cordial relations with Muslims as well because Catholics are even MORE of a minority in Egypt than Orthodox, and if it is as you say that most Maronites are in the U.S. or migrated, then there is MORE concern for the welfare of the few that still remain in Lebanon or Syria, etc.

There is no Pope-alotry involved in my defense of your Patriarch. I am merely following the Canons of the univeresal undivided Church that accords proper respect to the heads of the Churches.

If your reference to Kosovo is based on current events, your crack at the Patriarch of the West deserves even more rebuke, because the Pope of Rome has been on the international forefront in appeals for peace in Kosovo.

As far as your derision of my name, that was rather unkind. However, I'll go with the flow - I am certainly no god, nor claim to be one, but I appreciate the complement.

Blessings, sincerely,
Marduk

Oh, the "pictures don't lie" comment was kind of funny. OK, we see a bunch of Nazis at the Vatican. What exactly does that prove? Jesus ate and mingled with tax collectors and prostitutes. What did THAT prove? :rolleyes:

Blessings,
Marduk

Nathan needed to rebuke David
Nestorius was Patriarch, if no one spoke against him due to protocol, we would all be heretics.
HH Pope Shenouda would not kiss the Koran, even in his precarious position. Blessings upon him.
The Vatican sided with Albanian Muslims against the Orthodox Serbs and the media is silent at the current holocaust, much like the betrayal of the Maronite South Lebanon Army and Phalangists was not covered by American Media.
Forgive me Marduk, I have sinned without number. May Our Lady of Zeitoun bless you without measure.

Dear Walnut40,

You make this comparison between Nestorius and HH Pope John Paul. Can you show me exactly where or when the Pope ever preached what Muslims believe (it doesn't even have to be a Vatican document; it can be some off-the-wall gossip column like the National Enquirer)?

Blessings,
Marduk

John Paul II has never affirmed any Islamist heresy to date, Inshallah. (I agree with Hillaire Belloc, Islam is a Christian heresy)

It was reported the the Supreme Pontiff prayed for St.John the Baptist to protect Islam. I hope it was a false report, put pictures of him kissing a book that says "they crucified him not" lead me to think he likely did that as well.
Sure looks like what Our Lady of LaSallette warned of.