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Apotheoun,

We discussed Miles Jesu several times before, so you know I agree with you here.

Deacon Montalvo,

Thank you for the information on Miles Jesu.

Dear Friends, I have in the past attended a number of Miles Jesu days of recollection at their St Josaphat Center in Phoenix, as well as their liturgies in both Roman and Byzantine Rites. I have the greatest respect and affection for Fr. Foeckler, Fr. Cahill and the other consecrated men there at the center in Phoenix, and the men and women in MJ that I know elsewhere, too.

My own experience with MJ has been mostly with them in their Roman mode and for that I have found them to be really excellent. At the St Josaphat Center, Roman Rite Mass is celebrated facing the Lord, in the Novus Ordo. I believe that for Masses with MJ members only in attendance, they often say the Mass in Latin. It's true that they pray the Prayer of St John Chrysostom before communion in the Latin rite, but it works for me and really helps prepare me to receive/be received by, the Lord. It in fact reminds me of the "Prayer of Humble Access" that we use in the Anglican Usage of the Roman Rite at my regular parish here in Houston.

Kneeling for communion on the tongue is also the rule at the MJ Roman Rite masses in their own center (although when done outside the center--outside the family, so to speak-- they will accommodate standing reception in the hand, but then they will often station a server near the priest so that the communicant can ablute his fingers afterwards, to avoid profanation of Particles).

The actual service of the Divine Liturgy that I have attended have also always been very good. The MJ consecrated men seem to chant Ukrainian chant pretty well, too, from what little I can understand of it.

Since the majority of people in the Phoenix area who actually come to the MJ facility seem to be Roman Rite, I don't it is really surprising to find that they concentrate on Roman Rite liturgy and Western spirituality for the faithful there. I think you would have to ask people in Ukraine served by MJ there how Eastern in thought and spirituality they are in that environment.

I think that perhaps the best way to look at MJ is just to say that it is unique. I persoanlly have found it to be very helpful (and Fr Foeckler is a great confessor, too) and only wish that I could afford to get over to Phoenix more often to see them and participate in their community life, which seems to be excellent as well. Maybe some day we will have an MJ center here in Houston.

Several typos, of course, in my usual style; it's "I don't think..."

As for my "critique" of the MJ Divine Liturgies, I was for a couple of years a layman in the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese, so I do have familiarity with the DL (albeit in the Greek usage as used there). As an aside, I would add that unfortunately from the web sites--and from my own experience here in Houston--there don't seem to be too many BC, UGCC or even Melkite parishes where the more or less "full" Sunday package, as I appreciate it to be (Saturday Vespers, Sunday Orthros/Matins and then Liturgy) is done (I would guess St Elias in Ontario does this, but where else?).

As you all can probably gather, I retain a lot of love for many things in the Eastern tradition, certainly including the liturgy, even though I ultimately decided to return to my Western roots here. So you can perhaps see why MJ in its Western manifestations is fine with me.

Wow, check out this article I just found. It's about a year old. I have some friends who had distant relatives who were involved in this group. Scary.

Miles Jesu and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church [howtostaycatholic.blogspot.com]

Had almost forgotten about these ones.

I am wondering why Rome allows these apostolates to interfere in the affairs of local Churches in a manner inconsistent with broader Church policy. Maybe the whole concept of "apostolates" needs to be reexamined. They seem to cause more problems than they solve.

While I have no way of knowing the reasons why Rome allows these pseudo-apostalates, I can hazard a coupla guesses:
1. Following the principle that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, these movements/apostolates manage to do some very real good - often in spite of themselves. Good is good, wherever you find it.
2. They give the Holy father what I'd characterize as a false sense of reassurance and security. Looks to me like he favors them because they give the appearance of being instruments of authentic renewal in the Church, as well as fortelling the re-evangelization of locales burdened down with indifferece, if not downright hostility, to the Church.

As I said, these are just guesses. God forgive me if I'm mstaken. I mean no harm or ill-will to anyone who's trying to do good.

Christ is Risen!!

I think this is part of the problem with how the Catholic Church has developed over the centuries. Someone with a good idea, starts a program, gets it approved by Rome, and then finds ways to get around the local bishop of the place where he decides to set up shop. Look at the Legionairies of Christ, for example.

I think we need to return to the idea that we are subject to the bishop of the place we find ourselves in and the bishop of the sui juris Church we are members of in that place. I think we need to stop absolutely the idea that we can go to another bishop in our communion to get around our own bishop. Maybe the anwer to this problem is that if something is approved in Rome it stays in Rome and cannot be set up in another place except with the approval of the local bishop who should then make his own decision and even later withdraw permission and eject such a group from his territory.

And, maybe it's time to radically limit the bi-ritual faculties of these types of associations. At a bare minimum, they ought to be rigorously monitored and periodically reviewed--something like the policy on clergy sexual abuse. This is actually spiritual abuse and, it seems to me, something of an equally serious nature.

Bob

In raising the point below PLEASE do not misconstrue my point or my intentions. Monasticism has an honored position in the history and life of the Apostolic Church - both in the West and in Orthodoxy.

Nevertheless, Orthodoxy has a parallel problem with some monastic communities typically centered around a charismatic, mystical leader. Communities independent of the local bishop or bishops may set up shop near a vibrant center of parish life and often attract faithful from parishes by means of their outwardly rigorous lifestyle and spiritual airs. People will go so far as to accept one of these monks as their 'spiritual father' and disregard their parish priest's instructions and obtain absolution from the monastic priest rather than their pastor. Often the authority of the pastor as well as the Bishop is undermined in the process.

Just wanted you all to know that you are not alone with problems of a similar nature.

Let's call a spade a spade. The thinly veiled assertion you made, at least to me , is in reference to the Ephraimite monasteries of the Greek Archdiocese. As I see it, what is occurring there is a good thing. People are going above and beyond the minimalist attitudes of the vast majority of the parishes and exploring their faith much more deeply, under the spiritual direction of one who has been there. I wish that there were more of this going on in American Orthodoxy. How is this a problem to you?

Alexandr

Perhaps I wasn't paying attention properly, but didn't Pope Benedict recently abolish the Roman patriarchate?

I will wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree with you. Coming from a family of priests who have devoted their lives to pastoral work in Christ's Vineyard, I am offended by those who want to have it both ways, purporting to be part of a parish while disregarding the spiritual direction of their Bishop and their pastors. This causes division within God's family and leads to the sins of pride and boasting.My problem is not with the monastics, or for that matter even the 'starosti.Rather it is with those who live in the world and carry on with the appearance of piety while, in reality, they are using the trappings of monasticism to create a false or even impossible ideal. I have many good friends, both monks and nuns, who are wonderful people and I am not talking of them.

Thank you for posting the link to this article.